Toyota has given up on EVs. Not.

I didn't want to harsh Bongo's buzz too bad, but I almist mentioned the cold factor too. - it's a balmy 29 degrees here right now, and I do like not to look like Ralphies little brother in the Christmas Story movie when I drive :ROFLMAO:
The strategy is to pre-heat the battery and cabin while still connected to shore power. Then use the heated seats while driving. Running the resistance heater off the battery is a significant drain. Not a big deal for a grocery run, but you don't want to use it much on a trip.
Not sure if all that can be done with a phone or whether you have to get in the car.
 
The strategy is to pre-heat the battery and cabin while still connected to shore power. Then use the heated seats while driving. Running the resistance heater off the battery is a significant drain. Not a big deal for a grocery run, but you don't want to use it much on a trip.
Not sure if all that can be done with a phone or whether you have to get in the car.
Kind of like an air cooled Beetle - where does the heat come from?
An EV adds the question - Where does the power for the instruments, A/C, power seats, power locks, internet connection, etcetera come from?
 
I didn't want to harsh Bongo's buzz too bad, but I almist mentioned the cold factor too. - it's a balmy 29 degrees here right now, and I do like not to look like Ralphies little brother in the Christmas Story movie when I drive :ROFLMAO:
I'll say it again. 90% of the driving people do ... neither range or temperature is a factor. The vast majority drives nowhere near the range of a full change on a daily basis. It's not even close. The wind chill could be colder than a witches tit and it wouldn't matter.

All that said... it's true there are a lot of people an EV is not suitable for yet . And there's some irrational, yet tangible friction that slows adoption:

1. Apartment dwellers and homeowners without a garage. Generally, the charging system should be in a garage. Very few apartment complexes have charging stations. Add townhouses and condos to that list. Availability of convenient charging is a major constraint.

2. Long haul drivers. It's not range that's the problem. The newest EVs have the same range as a car with a full tank of gas. The constrain is the lack of fast charge stations that former Transportation Secretary Bootyjuice never built with the money allocated for same.

3. EVs use flat screens and dont have enough buttons. Who gives a fuck? :) People in love with the past. And there's a lot of them.

4. Americans are famously in love with cars and the smell of gasoline. It's ingrained in our culture. Cars and transportation and viewed very differently in other parts of the world... Asia, Europe, etc. Cars are not thought of as 'freedom machines' anywhere outside the US. That theme became part of American culture and the focus of carmaker marketing a hundred years ago. It's going hang on until all boomers are dead and Gen Jones tweeners and Millenials start wearing Depends. Ironically... besides convenience and cost of operation, you know what's going to change the perception of electric vehicles? Two things: Electric bicycles and auto racing. You heard it here first.

5. Bubbas. I'll just leave it at that.

Sail makers and rope makers all said steam would never be a good way to power a ship. Horse lovers had a million reasons why the Model T was woefully inadequate.
 
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Kind of like an air cooled Beetle - where does the heat come from?
An EV adds the question - Where does the power for the instruments, A/C, power seats, power locks, internet connection, etcetera come from?
Beetles sold in very cold climates had a gasoline powered heater in the trunk. I had one. It was a factory option. It ws so hot you had to turn it off after a few minutes.

To put power consumption in perspective... the batteries in the typical EV can run an entire home for three days. Maybe more depending on the load. The power needed for the auxiliary equipment on a car is miniscule. The compressor for AC on a Tesla is very efficient.

When you dig deep on all the bullshit people post online about EVs, you find that a lot of these assholes have never driven or owned an EV. No idea how they work. It's like irrational gun haters. All emotion, zero fact behind their opinions. That's the interwebs. Everybody is a fucking expert. There are definitely some issues with EVs that are legit. It's not a good fit... as they say... for some people. That's different from irrational hatred. Ive noticed a lot of article leately that were definitely authored by a bot. Completely fucking false. Makes me wonder who is sponsoring this.
 
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Somewhere in China, there's a guy named Wong who is creating bots that spread negativity and fake news on social media about Tesla. Sponsored by BYD and the CCP.
 
I'll say it again. 90% of the driving people do ... neither range or temperature is a factor. The vast majority drives nowhere near the range of a full change on a daily basis. It's not even close. The wind chill could be colder than a witches tit and it wouldn't matter.

You're not getting it. Yes.... 99% of people drive less than 50 miles a day. Thank you Captain Obvious.

It's not about what I drive daily. It's about having the FREEDOM to drive FAR whenever the fuck I want to, even if it's once a year or once every 5 years. Seriously. It's about whether I'm LIMITED or NOT. On occasion, my family likes to go on a road trip. I dare suggest it's QUITE COMMON for most American families to do that ON OCCASION. With an EV, the equation.... the planning.... the ability.... to do that changes significantly. It's a WHOLE different ball game.

Again... it doesn't fucking matter what we do DAILY. Your logic, equally applied to firearms, would be equally SILLY. Hey... most SD encounters, ON AVERAGE, involve less than 3 shots, at less than 3 yards. So... it "makes sense" that guns be limited to 3 shots with ammo that peters out after 3 yards. The "average shooter" doesn't NEED more than that, eh?

And to buy TWO cars.... one for commuting and one for distance driving is just dumb, too. And no... I'm not going to buy a "commuter" EV and then rent an ICE car for road trips, either.

Again, you seem to be insisting that EVs will either be mandated or that the market will inevitably CHOOSE EVs. You're dreamin' and have lost common sense in terms of the American culture. We are NOT Europeans. We don't live like them. We don't think like them. We are NOT a "collective" type of culture. We not only don't like public transportation... we largely REJECT it. We are cowboys who want to saddle up and ride off on adventures whenever the mood strikes. We do NOT like to be told when, where, or how we do ANYthing.

EVs are here to stay as a NICHE product. And for those who want / like them... Enjoy! ICE cars are also here to stay for a very VERY long time. My ICE car has virtually NO limitations. An EV? Yep.... limitations. And even if those limitations would not be in play 99% of the days I drive... IT. DOESN'T. MATTER. I don't want limitations of ANY kind at ANY time. And I can promise you that the vast majority of Americans feel exactly the same way. And the market reflects that as we speak.

EVs are "SO GREAT," that a BIG factor in sales is that the gov't DUBIOUSLY incentivized it with tax credits. Take those credits away and what happens??? You're a smart feller, so you know. We're seeing it right now. If the product was inherently superior, it would not have to be incentivized.
 
You're not getting it. Yes.... 99% of people drive less than 50 miles a day. Thank you Captain Obvious.

It's not about what I drive daily. It's about having the FREEDOM to drive FAR whenever the fuck I want to, even if it's once a year or once every 5 years. Seriously. It's about whether I'm LIMITED or NOT. On occasion, my family likes to go on a road trip. I dare suggest it's QUITE COMMON for most American families to do that ON OCCASION. With an EV, the equation.... the planning.... the ability.... to do that changes significantly. It's a WHOLE different ball game.

Again... it doesn't fucking matter what we do DAILY. Your logic, equally applied to firearms, would be equally SILLY. Hey... most SD encounters, ON AVERAGE, involve less than 3 shots, at less than 3 yards. So... it "makes sense" that guns be limited to 3 shots with ammo that peters out after 3 yards. The "average shooter" doesn't NEED more than that, eh?

And to buy TWO cars.... one for commuting and one for distance driving is just dumb, too. And no... I'm not going to buy a "commuter" EV and then rent an ICE car for road trips, either.

Again, you seem to be insisting that EVs will either be mandated or that the market will inevitably CHOOSE EVs. You're dreamin' and have lost common sense in terms of the American culture. We are NOT Europeans. We don't live like them. We don't think like them. We are NOT a "collective" type of culture. We not only don't like public transportation... we largely REJECT it. We are cowboys who want to saddle up and ride off on adventures whenever the mood strikes. We do NOT like to be told when, where, or how we do ANYthing.

EVs are here to stay as a NICHE product. And for those who want / like them... Enjoy! ICE cars are also here to stay for a very VERY long time. My ICE car has virtually NO limitations. An EV? Yep.... limitations. And even if those limitations would not be in play 99% of the days I drive... IT. DOESN'T. MATTER. I don't want limitations of ANY kind at ANY time. And I can promise you that the vast majority of Americans feel exactly the same way. And the market reflects that as we speak.

EVs are "SO GREAT," that a BIG factor in sales is that the gov't DUBIOUSLY incentivized it with tax credits. Take those credits away and what happens??? You're a smart feller, so you know. We're seeing it right now. If the product was inherently superior, it would not have to be incentivized.
My point is you are an anomaly. Or soon will be. The mass market in the US is lagging but it will follow the rest of the world to EVs.

There was a huge marketing push by carmakers in the 50's and 60s about having a second, smaller car for the dutiful wife to drive around town. It worked. Most families had one car. Then they didnt. I don't know any married couple or co-habitators with one car. Not one. Of the 8-9 people I know who own a Tesla, three own two. The rest have an ICE car or truck as their other vehicle.

Screenshot 2026-01-09 at 9.04.14 AM.png


Most of the people who buy cars never lift the hood or give a shit what's under there. The average schlub and schlubette are going to respond to the marketing that will be showered upon us when the established car companies get their act together and build EVs designed from the ground up to be EVs, not heavy, clunky gas and diesel burners bolted on a roller skate full of batteries. More like BYD and Tesla, less like the Ford Lightning F150.

The reason the big auto makers are sending mixed messages about their commitment to EVs is because they haven't figured out how to make them cheap enough to be competitive. So in the short ter... EVs bad, ICE good is their mantra. An ICE car factory and manufacturing process is vastly different from EVs. The CEO of Ford recently admitted this. he said they need to change the way build cars in order to be competitive.

Automakers will end up cannibalizing their own market for ICE cars. Trade in your old Ford for a new electric Ford. They arent ready. When they are, this is exactly what they will do.

An acquaintance of mine in WA owns two Teslas. He drives one, his wife the other. They spend half the year in Thailand, where he drives a Chinese BYD,. the main competitor to Tesla outside the US. He tells me both cars are excellent and relatively maintenance free other than normal wear items like tires. He will never buy a gas burner again. This guy owns his own manufacturing company and grew that business himself. He's no dummy and not the type who buys shit because it's fashionable.

The public will buy the story about EVs being clean, quiet and cheaper to run. You never have to pump gas again by itself will motivate millions of buyers. NOTE: I don't want to seem mysogenistic, but my observation is when women are dressed up for work, a date or some other event, they hate pumping gas. Do your own survey on that. The truth is, If I'm dressed for a meeting I dont want to pump gas either. I don't want any drips landing on my Bruno Magli's.

You have made it clear you will never buy one. As a refusenik, you will become the outlier among friends and neighbors who drank the EV kool-aid. :)
 
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I think the following events will have to take place for mass migration to EV's:

1. More rapid chargers.
Right now, most of them are on the major highway corridors. Once away from those, they are harder to find. They don't have to be on every corner, but you shouldn't have to go on an Easter Egg Hunt to find one either.

2. Do away with all the apps and make them swipe-to-pay just like a gas pump.
There are plenty of charger reviews where the user had issues getting the app to allow charging.
And you shouldn't be SOL if your phone is dead.
If a brand new gas station can come up out of the ground and be operational in a month, so can a multi point charging station.

3. Standardize on one plug.
It's looking like NACS will win this one. Why this wasn't decided from the beginning is a mystery.

4. Clean sheet car designs.
Design cars from the beginning to be EV rather than adapting an existing design.
So, I get it. Testing the waters and all. Let's see if peeps will buy it before we commit big bucks to a total redesign. But it seems that a better and less expensive car will result. I can't believe Ford sold any F-150 Lightnings when I saw the price. :oops:

So, what holding all this up? Money.
Not only who will finance the implementation, but also, whose ox is getting gored if the status quo is changed? Who has the most to lose?
As always, you follow the money and find the answers. ;)
 
If a brand new gas station can come up out of the ground and be operational in a month, so can a multi point charging station.

Ah, but Biden spent $7 BILLION to build EIGHT charging stations in FOUR YEARS.

So, as the EV fanbois say, "It's getting better every day!"

Nervous Schitts Creek GIF by CBC
 
Ah, but Biden spent $7 BILLION to build EIGHT charging stations in FOUR YEARS.

So, as the EV fanbois say, "It's getting better every day!"

Nervous Schitts Creek GIF by CBC
Absurd, yes. It's evident nobody cares what Secretary Bootyjuice spent the money on. It doesnt matter anymore. The government will have no role in the growth of EVs in the US. It's going to happen naturally. Like a chicken in every pot there's going to be an EV in every driveway.
 
The government will have no role in the growth of EVs in the US. It's going to happen naturally.

LOL! If it wasn't for the gov't, the EV industry would have never happened. If there was any inherent value in the product, it wouldn't have to be subsidized to create sales. Thankfully those subsidies are going away. And so, EVs will remain a small niche product.... NATURALLY.
 
Well dont say I didnt warn you that people will point and stare at you in your gas burner in the not too distant future. You may get asked to participate in the 4th of July parade like this guy: :)


Screenshot 2026-01-09 at 11.17.02 AM.png

Ahooooga!
 
I think the following events will have to take place for mass migration to EV's:

1. More rapid chargers.
Right now, most of them are on the major highway corridors. Once away from those, they are harder to find. They don't have to be on every corner, but you shouldn't have to go on an Easter Egg Hunt to find one either.

THere are NO "rapid chargers" now.
I'm with Racer. A "rapid charger" would provide a full charge in 5 minutes. I'm old enough that I could give it ten while I take a potty break, but certanally not an hour every hundered miles or so to get a partial charge. That's not "rapid"
 
THere are NO "rapid chargers" now.
I'm with Racer. A "rapid charger" would provide a full charge in 5 minutes. I'm old enough that I could give it ten while I take a potty break, but certanally not an hour every hundered miles or so to get a partial charge. That's not "rapid"

And at every charging station bank that I've seen on the highway plazas.... there's a LINE WAITING to even GET TO a charger. Oh... most of the time, half of the chargers are broken / out-of-order.

The "fast charge" is claimed to be 20 minutes (an eternity). And that will only get you 80 - 100 miles.

Adam Devine Reaction GIF
 
THere are NO "rapid chargers" now.
I'm with Racer. A "rapid charger" would provide a full charge in 5 minutes. I'm old enough that I could give it ten while I take a potty break, but certanally not an hour every hundered miles or so to get a partial charge. That's not "rapid"
5 minutes will have to wait for the solid state battery technology. Probably 5+ years from now.

A Tesla Super Charger is 250kW.
The battery pack in a Tesla Model 3 Long Range is 75kW.
To charge from 20% to 80% would take about 12-15 minutes.
An 80% charge in a Model 3 would be good for 200+ miles. About 3 hours at 70 mph.
Unless you wear Depends, the limiting factor for most folks is their bladder. The car might be capable of 400 miles, but are you?

The wife's Kia has a 425 mile range. Since we don't run the car to empty, we start looking for gas when it gets to 1/4 tank. Call it 300 miles. I can't remember the last time we drove non stop between fill ups. Sooner or later, you're going to stop for lunch, or to pee before time to fill up again. And the older you get, that prostate ain't as young as it used to be either. :oops:

So no, it's not perfect. But it's not as bad as your example above.

And hey, I'm not lining up to get an EV either. But the technology is definitely starting to look more interesting.
 
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