Toyota has given up on EVs. Not.

[Bongo Lewi]

Nearly Half Of Toyota And Lexus Buyers Went Electrified, As Tacoma Has Its Best Year Ever | Carscoops

Electrified vehicles accounted for 47 percent of all US Toyota and Lexus sales in 2025

www.carscoops.com

 

[Racer88]

To be clear, "electrified" (as per the article) includes HYBRIDS, which are the vast majority of the cars being discussed in this article. The article title is (intentionally) misleading.

Hybrids are not EVs. Toyota previously announced they are directing their focus AWAY from EVs and more towards hybrids. That's actually old news at this point.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Somebody forgot to tell Toyota that they arent advancing on EVs

Hybrids are an EV with its own generator. . Many of the newer hybrid designs are plug in hybrids you can charge. Bigger batteries. The latest designs are 'full hybrids'. They can run exclusively on the electric motor. Toyota Synergy and Ford hybrids do this. The line between what is an EV and what isnt is now officially blurry.

Lexus Unveils the All-New RZ, the First Pure Battery EV for Global Markets | Lexus | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

Lexus is proud to unveil details of the new "RZ", the luxury brand's first globally-available pure Battery EV (BEV) model.

global.toyota

Toyota bZ All Electric SUV Adds Range, Charging, and Exterior Updates for 2026 - Toyota USA Newsroom

PLANO, Texas (May 13, 2025) – Toyota continues to move its electrified vehicle portfolio forward by announcing its 2026 bZ Battery Electric Vehicle (BEV). For model year 2026, the model makes advancements in range, output, charging performance, and vehicle design. Leading the charge is a larger...

pressroom.toyota.com

I got a ride in a F150 Lightning this week. I was impressed. The owner told me so far, it has been awesome. Towing and off road, it has performed as advertised. Like a 4x4 truck. He added that Ford has screwed up the marketing for this vehicle and their dealers are totally unprepared for selling and maintaining them. This guy is not an accountant who drives a truck. He knows trucks and is an avid off roader. I was surprised by his impression of the Lightning because there's been nothing but negativity about it.

 

[Racer88]

Hybrids are an EV with its own generator.

I know that you know that's bullshit. I could equally suggest that any car with an alternator is "an EV with its own generator."

A hybrid has an electric motor that ASSISTS the gas engine. It works by recovering some of the energy lost during braking converting it to electricity to the power the assistive electric motor. Without the gas powered ICE, the hybrid is going nowhere.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

I know that you know that's bullshit. I could equally suggest that any car with an alternator is "an EV with its own generator."

We agree on something re: cars: An ICE vehicle wont run without an alternator or battery.

A hybrid has an electric motor that ASSISTS the gas engine. It works by recovering some of the energy lost during braking converting it to electricity to the power the assistive electric motor. Without the gas powered ICE, the hybrid is going nowhere.

The traditional hybrids, yes. Newer, full hybrids are something completely different. They can run in full EV mode around town. The ICE comes into play in long distance highway driving and rapid acceleration. A power management system determines when the ICE is needed. That's a very different design from the traditional hybrid where the motor assists the ICE. These vehicles are going to bridge the gap until EVs improve their range and charging times. Then ICE is going away.

In 20 years, nobody will know what a piston is.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Fast forward to 2040

Said the new hire automotive technician to the guy who is retiring....

What did you call these things? Oh yea... my grandfather told me about those.

 

[Bobster]

I got a ride in a F150 Lightning this week. I was impressed. The owner told me so far, it has been awesome. Towing and off road, it has performed as advertised. Like a 4x4 truck.

One of the guys at the range pulled his gear out of the frunk of his so I asked him about it. He is very satisfied with it as it meets most of his needs including towing and launching his 20' boat. He did note that the range drops dramatically when towing and that he would use a different vehicle were he to take a long trip.

We agree on something re: cars: An ICE vehicle wont run without an alternator or battery.

I disagree: Ever hear of a magneto?

 

[serger]

"He did note that the range drops dramatically when towing and that he would use a different vehicle were he to take a long trip."

That's code for , "If I ever leave town."

 

[Bongo Lewi]

One of the guys at the range pulled his gear out of the frunk of his so I asked him about it. He is very satisfied with it as it meets most of his needs including towing and launching his 20' boat. He did note that the range drops dramatically when towing and that he would use a different vehicle were he to take a long trip.

I disagree: Ever hear of a magneto?

Yes. There's that. Very popular in the 20th century. On airplanes. Chain saws and lawnmowers still have them. And old motorcycles. I cant think of one modern passenger car that has a magneto. It would be problematic powering all the electronics on a modern car if there were no battery. The engine has to be running. And you have to start it with a crank. Or a shotgun shell.

By 2040 all chain saws will be battery operated. As will lawnmowers. I have both. The electric ones always start.

I dont have an airplane. But I would like to. The kind with a jet engine.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

"He did note that the range drops dramatically when towing and that he would use a different vehicle were he to take a long trip."

That's code for , "If I ever leave town."

You know how many people never really go anywhere? The majority.

The average American drives 37 miles per day or less. The typical EV today averages 250-300 miles on a single charge.

The myth that EVs are not suitable for the driving most people do is utter nonsense.

 

[Racer88]

You know how many people never really go anywhere? The majority.

The average American drives 37 miles per day or less. The typical EV today averages 250-300 miles on a single charge.

The myth that EVs are not suitable for the driving most people do is utter nonsense.

No. They're not suitable for the times that MOST Americans DO take a road trip. Of course we don't go on long road trips every day. But when my family wants to drive several states away on vacation, an EV would hinder that trip TREMENDOUSLY. It's an ENTIRELY different experience... and will take a lot longer.

Nope... I want to be able to take MY DAILY DRIVER on long road trips whenever I want... on a whim... without having to PRE-PLAN the FEW exits that offer charging and then WAIT for a charger... and then WAIT some more while it charges. It doesn't matter if it's only once a year... or even every few years. I don't want to have to think about what, how, and where I can drive.

Nope... I prefer to get off on ANY random exit and have a myriad of choices of gas stations, each with many OPEN pumps, where I can refuel in THREE MINUTES and be on my way for another 400 - 500 miles.

It's not about what I do every day. It's about having the FREEDOM to do OTHER things whenever the fuck I want... without having to rent or borrow another car.... or without having to deal with the inefficiencies and inconveniences of EVs, with ZERO "upside."

If you like all that shit, then rock on. But insisting that the rest of us like it is disingenuous.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

It's not a question of liking it or not. It's about what's going to happen.

Range anxiety is more psychological than technical. Research funded by Polestar suggests 97% of EV owners say they will not buy another ICE car. The average road trip in for Americans today is :

- 42% drive 250 miles or less. Easily done without stopping to charge.
- Less than 20% say they will travel up to 500 miles. (Which requires a 20-30 minute stop for a rapid charge to 80%)
- Only 6% will drive 1000 miles. (thus requiring a second stop to charge up)

In the time it takes to get lunch and take a shit, you can charge up.

By 2035 60-80% of all new cars sold worldwide will be EVs.
EV sales have already surpassed ICE vehicles in China.
Europe EV sales by the early 2030s is projected to be at 50-60%
The US lags the developed world in EV sales today but is expected to be at 50% by 2035.

 

[Racer88]

It's not a question of liking it or not. It's about what's going to happen.

Range anxiety is more psychological than technical. Research funded by Polestar suggests 97% of EV owners say they will not buy another ICE car. The average road trip in for Americans today is :

- 42% drive 250 miles or less. Easily done without stopping to charge.
- Less than 20% say they will travel up to 500 miles. (Which requires a 20-30 minute stop for a rapid charge to 80%)
- Only 6% will drive 1000 miles. (thus requiring a second stop to charge up)

In the time it takes to get lunch and take a shit, you can charge up.

By 2035 60-80% of all new cars sold worldwide will be EVs.
EV sales have already surpassed ICE vehicles in China.
Europe EV sales by the early 2030s is projected to be at 50-60%
The US lags the developed world in EV sales today but is expected to be at 50% by 2035.

It can't happen without market ADAPTATION. In other words people have to want it and BUY it. You can't force things to market. It never works. Always backfires.

If people don't like it, they won't buy it. SOME people have and will buy it. But they are very much a minority. It's not beating ICE cars in the market for a reason. For many reasons.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

It can't happen without market ADAPTATION. In other words people have to want it and BUY it. You can't force things to market. It never works. Always backfires.

If people don't like it, they won't buy it. SOME people have and will buy it. But they are very much a minority. It's not beating ICE cars in the market for a reason. For many reasons.

Agree the market decides. It already has. Every EV sold is an ICE not sold. Even if EV sales are only 10%, that’s a 10% reduction in ICE sales. When you start at zero there’s no place to go but up. Every dollar spent on a Tesla is a dollar GM or the other big carmakers don’t receive. Tesla sold 1.6 million cars in 2025. That’s a lot of money the established players lost.

 

[Racer88]

When you start at zero there’s no place to go but up.

Ah, but EV sales (at least the biggest company in the US - Tesla) are down... precipitously in this last year.

Sure, they've garnered a little slice of the market. To be expected. But it will always be a niche market, not a majority of the market. Ever. Not unless the tech changes DRAMATICALLY. Full charge in 3 minutes at any exit on the highway. Get back to me when they can do that.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Ah, but EV sales (at least the biggest company in the US - Tesla) are down... precipitously in this last year.

Sure, they've garnered a little slice of the market. To be expected. But it will always be a niche market, not a majority of the market. Ever. Not unless the tech changes DRAMATICALLY. Full charge in 3 minutes at any exit on the highway. Get back to me when they can do that.

The billion dollar question is how many people legitimately care about range. It's a big nothingburger for most people. They drive around town, go home and plug in. We are going to find out how many in the next few years. I think it's single digits.

 

[no4mk1t]

My three criticisms of the EV situation are:

The range has to go up.
The price has to come down.
And the charging infrastructure to drastically improve.

The first two have been moving in that direction. The third is lagging behind both in terms of the number of rapid chargers and the location.
Tesla has the best charger network. But most of them are on or near Interstate highways. You don't see many out in the boonies. Closest one to me is a half hour drive...at the Interstate. There is one other, a Shell charger, brand new, a half hour away in the opposite direction. And then you have to hope it works and delivers a true rapid charging rate, both of which seem to plague Shell chargers.

Then there is the maddening issue of needing to create an account and download an app for each of the companies that operate rapid chargers, and there are six of them. Then you have to carry around a box of adapters for the four different plug types in use.

I believe in the end NACS will win out over the others. There's a reason manufacturers are fitting their cars with it.

But for me, I'll wait for the technology to mature a bit more.

 

[NavyVette]

Agree the market decides. It already has. Every EV sold is an ICE not sold. Even if EV sales are only 10%, that’s a 10% reduction in ICE sales. When you start at zero there’s no place to go but up. Every dollar spent on a Tesla is a dollar GM or the other big carmakers don’t receive. Tesla sold 1.6 million cars in 2025. That’s a lot of money the established players lost.

That is like saying that every time someone buys a Coke a Pepsi is not sold.
Just because someone bought an EV does not mean they would have purchased an ICE
Maybe they are EV curious but know (like I do, and @Racer88 does) that an EV will never be able to be our vehice of choice until we can pull off pretty much any highway offramp and got 300+ miles of range in less than ten minutes.

I could see an EV for daily in town driving for the smog breathing coasties but for me I cannnot.

I like to be spontanious. If I get off work and think "I should drive 200 miles away and buy a crib for my granddaughter" (which we have done) I don't want to say "Well, we need to wait till tomorrow because we don't have the range.

So I could have an EV as a third car, but that's just stupid, even for me

 

[no4mk1t]

The billion dollar question is how many people legitimately care about range. It's a big nothingburger for most people. They drive around town, go home and plug in. We are going to find out how many in the next few years. I think it's single digits.

Well, it isn't until it is. Agreed, for 95% of the time, they will not require a charge away from home.
The first time they take a drive that will require a charging stop is when they better do their homework.

The biggest hit is winter driving. Battery efficiency takes a hit in cold weather to the tune of 25%. Combine that with are you willing to bundle up so you don't have to use the heater much? Are peeps going to be willing to plan ahead and pre-heat the battery pack for 30 minutes before departure in freezing temps? And pre-heat the cabin?
Is it nighttime? Is it raining? Lights and wipers are a much smaller drain but adds up on a longer trip.

I know someone who is a recent Model 3 owner. I quizzed her about if there were any issues taking a trip. She recently drove it to Ohio and back and had no problems, but the Tesla plans your charging stops for you, so it's easy. Not sure if other brands have similar capabilities.

 

[NavyVette]

Well, it isn't until it is. Agreed, for 95% of the time, they will not require a charge away from home.
The first time they take a drive that will require a charging stop is when they better do their homework.

The biggest hit is winter driving. Battery efficiency takes a hit in cold weather to the tune of 25%. Combine that with are you willing to bundle up so you don't have to use the heater much? Are peeps going to be willing to plan ahead and pre-heat the battery pack for 30 minutes before departure in freezing temps? And pre-heat the cabin?
Is it nighttime? Is it raining? Lights and wipers are a much smaller drain but adds up on a longer trip.

I know someone who is a recent Model 3 owner. I quizzed her about if there were any issues taking a trip. She recently drove it to Ohio and back and had no problems, but the Tesla plans your charging stops for you, so it's easy. Not sure if other brands have similar capabilities.

I didn't want to harsh Bongo's buzz too bad, but I almist mentioned the cold factor too. - it's a balmy 29 degrees here right now, and I do like not to look like Ralphies little brother in the Christmas Story movie when I drive