Article Link! The Great American EV Fire Sale Is About to Begin

Racer88 said:
I'm just posting this animated gif to tease you. How hot is this??? ;)

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Once "Gold Chain" Lewi's new whip is ready, Greta will be so impressed she'll be his first ho! :D

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Racer88 said:
The carbon tax is a scam that we pay indirectly. Corporations have to pay it, right? They pass that on to consumers, no doubt.
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Sure. Tell me how many pennies a month that cost. each taxpayer. Every expense a manufacturer or seller has to pay affects the retail price. Literally everything.

I got a tax break for solar panels. It wasn't jack squat. I don't haver any school age kids. Why should I have to pay taxes for schools? Same kind of thing. Life is full of inequities.

Racer88 said:
I'm just posting this animated gif to tease you. How hot is this??? ;)

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I have wood
 
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Bongo Lewi said:
I love a bargain. My next car purchase is an EV.

In Norway, 89% of all new cars sold are EVs. It's cold there. They don't care who doesn't like batteries.

Or everyone is Norway is stupid. Which seems unlikely.

Norway has a lot of oil. Major producer. 60% of their exports. A 100 billion dollar business. Yet they are going "e".

Norway is also the worlds #1 producer of tall, leggy blondes.

We should be more like Norway.
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NO THANK YOU. They are also Green/ClimateChange lemmings.
 
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Bongo Lewi said:
I don't haver any school age kids. Why should I have to pay taxes for schools?
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In theory, by subsidizing the education of the locals, you are raising their standard of life and living, creating a better person and therefore a better neighborhood and county for both them and you... :)
 
Bobster said:
In theory, by subsidizing the education of the locals, you are raising their standard of life and living, creating a better person and therefore a better neighborhood and county for both them and you... :)
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Agree in principle. Except freaks of nature, perverts, and psycho liberals are preaching not teaching in public schools across the country. (see photo) And banning Dr. Seuss, suggesting he was racist. Yet books about faggotry are OK.

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By not caring who gets a tax credit for buying an EV you helped eliminate tailpipe emissions on 1.3 million cars sold in 2024.
 
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Bongo Lewi said:
By not caring who gets a tax credit for buying an EV you helped eliminate tailpipe emissions on 1.3 million cars sold in 2024.
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LOL! Ummmm... the emissions moved to the power plants burning coal and natural gas. Emissions were not eliminated. They were moved.

In any case, I don't care to pay taxes for false purposes. Furthermore, I don't care at all about that "goal," even if it was real.
 
One Ping Only said:
I never said “ugly”. Al least they stayed out of the EU
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The roads, public services, rail, light rail... all function like clockwork. Impeccably maintained, operated, and clean.

Now and then then I would spend a weekend at one of their 'resorts'. Even in the winter. It's a different lifestyle. Saunas, hot tubs outside in the cold, skiing, snowshoeing. Very focused on health. Social harmony is obvious. It's not enforced by a nanny state like in the UK. It's how they live. The mantra is mind your own fucking business.

I never got an unhinged, commie socialist vibe from anyone. They are very self-reliant people in general. For the most part they disliked Russian-style communism.

Socialism in moderation is pretty much everywhere. The reasons it can never work in the US is greed and corruption. We don't have a monolithic culture. The downside of the melting pot concept is every group is in it for themselves. It's a competition. It takes generations for newcomers to assimilated cast off their ethnic heritage. Some never do.
 
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Racer88 said:
LOL! Ummmm... the emissions moved to the power plants burning coal and natural gas. Emissions were not eliminated. They were moved.

In any case, I don't care to pay taxes for false purposes. Furthermore, I don't care at all about that "goal," even if it was real.
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Emissions of power generation has no bearing on EVs. Zero. That's a myth. Smokestack emissions from the power industry remains constant. If there were no EVs it would not change. Electric power demand has grown every year since it was invented. Generating capacity is not at it's limits. Not even close.

Some may ask why are they rolling outrages and brownouts in places like LA during a heat wave? That's a power transmission and distribution problem created by idiots who run that city and the state.

Eliminating tailpipe emissions is not trivial. There is no 'transfer' or trade off of emissions re: smoke stack.

As the philosopher Bongo once said... He who believe tailpipe emissions no big deal, close garage door, get in, roll down window and start car. Breathe deep 30 minutes.

A new house or apartment consumes way more electricity than an EV. Those who irrationally believe EVs are going to collapse the so-called grid, must also agree that all home building and new construction of any kind must stop. Or before anything can be built, an identical structure must be knocked down.
 
Bongo Lewi said:
missions of power generation has no bearing on EVs. Zero. That's a myth. Smokestack emissions from the power industry remains constant.
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Ummmm.... no. First Law of Thermodynamics. The amount of fuel consumed to generate power depends on how much power is being generated / consumed. A finite / constant amount of fuel does NOT produce / generate an infinite amount of power, as you seem to be implying.

So if power demands go up, more fuel is consumed to generate for that demand. More fuel burned = more emissions. This is REALLY simple Physics. If suddenly everyone (theoretically) is charging EV batteries, the demand for power will naturally increase. Each household will be using more electricity. Multiply that by millions.... increased demand... increased "fossil fuels" burned at the power plant.... more emissions. There's no way around that.

A very practical and "layperson" observation of this can be achieved with a home generator. When our backup generator is running.... and the a/c kicks on (big increase in power demand), you can hear the generator lug down briefly and then automatically add throttle (increasing fuel consumption... AND emissions). When the a/c kicks off (and it's just the lights and other minor appliances running), the generator settles down, burning less fuel.

If we don't run the a/c, the generator consumes less fuel. Again... simple Physics.

The electricity used to charge an EV battery consumes fuel at the power plant. It doesn't magically appear at the plug in the wall. That consumed fuel produces emissions. Again... not magic. Not "clean." Energy comes at a cost and always has waste products. There is NO WAY around that. I know you know this. That's why your claim that there is ZERO effect is quite puzzling.
 
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I think Bongo's looking at the gigawatts / DeLorean equation - Suppose the global power production from all power plants is 1.2 million gigawatts and at non peak hours the world consumption is only 1/2 a million gigawatts.
There is enough left to send a large number of DeLorean's back in time :)

Of course on peak hours, if the world uses 2 million gigawatts all DeLorean's are stuck in time.

Assuming of course that there is no storage for the electricity produced 24/7

And of course I'm only mentioning this for the DeLorean reference :)
 

Is electric power plant output constant?​


No, electric power plant output is not constant. It varies based on several factors:
  • Demand Fluctuations: Power plants adjust output to match electricity demand, which changes throughout the day, week, or season (e.g., higher demand during peak hours or hot weather).
  • Type of Plant:
    • Base-load plants (e.g., nuclear, coal) operate near constant output, providing steady power.
    • Peaking plants (e.g., natural gas) ramp up or down to meet short-term demand spikes.
    • Renewables (e.g., solar, wind) depend on weather, with output fluctuating based on sunlight or wind speed.
  • Maintenance and Downtime: Plants may reduce or stop output for scheduled maintenance or unexpected outages.
  • Grid Requirements: Operators adjust output to maintain grid stability, responding to frequency or voltage needs.
  • Fuel Availability: For some plants (e.g., hydro), output depends on water levels or fuel supply.
Data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) shows that in 2024, U.S. power plants' output varied significantly, with daily load curves showing peaks and troughs driven by demand. For example, solar plants produce zero output at night, while wind output can vary by 20-50% daily based on weather. Even base-load plants like nuclear may reduce output during low-demand periods to avoid overgeneration.
 
Racer88 said:

Is electric power plant output constant?​


No, electric power plant output is not constant. It varies based on several factors:
  • Demand Fluctuations: Power plants adjust output to match electricity demand, which changes throughout the day, week, or season (e.g., higher demand during peak hours or hot weather).
  • Type of Plant:
    • Base-load plants (e.g., nuclear, coal) operate near constant output, providing steady power.
    • Peaking plants (e.g., natural gas) ramp up or down to meet short-term demand spikes.
    • Renewables (e.g., solar, wind) depend on weather, with output fluctuating based on sunlight or wind speed.
  • Maintenance and Downtime: Plants may reduce or stop output for scheduled maintenance or unexpected outages.
  • Grid Requirements: Operators adjust output to maintain grid stability, responding to frequency or voltage needs.
  • Fuel Availability: For some plants (e.g., hydro), output depends on water levels or fuel supply.
Data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) shows that in 2024, U.S. power plants' output varied significantly, with daily load curves showing peaks and troughs driven by demand. For example, solar plants produce zero output at night, while wind output can vary by 20-50% daily based on weather. Even base-load plants like nuclear may reduce output during low-demand periods to avoid overgeneration.
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Are you interpreting this correctly? It only reinforces what I said. Base load plants don't ramp up and down just like I said. Like in never. They aren't designed to do that.

Peaking plants are usually gas turbines. Turboshaft engines. They start and stop. Peaking generators are far more expensive to operate so they run only when demand requires it. Most today are fired by natural gas. Before that became popular they burned jet fuel. Most of the time they only run them when weather - like a heat wave or cold snap - strikes. Because they don't charge ratepayers more when they run them. Mainly because regulators won't let them. So utilities lose money every time they fire them up. The other exception is the base load plant has an unplanned outage. It happens. Peaking units come nowhere near the output of base load. It's not even close.

Besides not being able adjust base load fuel consumption, electricity is not like water or start backing up when demand decreases. Excess generation is often sold to neighboring utilities who are members of the regional interconnect. AKA the grid.

If you haven't seen or been near a 150 megawatt utility boiler, which is a 300 x 100 box with water flowing in the walls and in tubes suspended in the upper part of the furnace. It is heated up to about 900 degrees with oil or gas then they start blowing in pulverized coal which is like talcum powder. The coal burns instantaneously and the furnace maintains a temperature of about 1200 degrees. That heat is used to create superheated steam, which runs the turbine which in turn spins the generator. How much coal is that? 70 tons per hour. These plats are run pedal to the metal as they say... 24/7. BTW: A single railroad coal car usually holds 100 tons. Ask me what's in the flue gas of a coal fired plant and how the ash is disposed of. How toxic all this effluent is would shock most people.

I'd be delighted to debate powerplant operations with anyone, since I designed boiler combustion controls for a living for almost decade. I have been in most of the coal fired power plants east of the Mississippi. And a few nukes, but that's beside the point. I know how power generation works and how power gets to where it's going thru the transmission and distribution system. That's how I know when EV haters are trying to blow smoke up my ass.

So in brief... Peaking power is a nit in term of base load. It's completely irrelevant to this discussion. The salient point is the fuel required to support the base load is constant. EVs have no effect or influence on it. Think of peaking units as the Generac system you might have to run your house in an emergency. Important to have as a backup but terribly expensive to run.

I'm reminded of my ex wife who thought if you dim the lights in the house you save power. Wrong. The power that doesn't go to the bulb is dissipated as heat in the dimmer. The load remains the same.

I am also reminded of a former neighbor who put thousands of lights on his oversized suburban home at Christmas yet spoke with authority at backyard barbecues about the potential load EVs would put on the electric system. The ribs were delicious so I just nodded and let him think he was smart.
 
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Bongo Lewi said:
Are you interpreting this correctly? It only reinforces what I said. Base load plants don't ramp up and down just like I said. Like in never. They aren't designed to do that.
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I didn't post it as a debate point against your position. I posted it simply to answer the question (for myself and others), since I did not know the specifics. So, I asked Grok and posted the answer without prejudice. :cool:
 
Here’s the bottom line: the turbine/generator in any base load power plant - nuke or fossil - spins at the same speed all day all night.

Like how an alternator on a car outputs about 14 volts whether you are driving 10 mph or 100.

Roughly 3600 rpm. In Europe, 3000. On account they are 50 cycle vs our 60.

If the load exceeds what's being generated, the voltage drops. Safety mechanisms kick in and disconnect or transfer the load to another source.
 
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We studied the Great Northeast Blackout of 1965 in school. It happened again on a smaller scale in 1977 and yet again in 2003 if I recall correctly. The ‘77 blackout triggered riots and looting in NYC.
 

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