Sig P320 "Uncommanded Discharges" (Merged Threads)

Powdered metal, yep, still crap in guns today. It’s called MIM. For those that have worked with MIM, it’s like glued together sand and comes apart that way. Looks fine from the outside but when you get into it you realize this is not normal steel. It’s weaker than billet parts and prone to having issues in guns but is a much cheaper and faster manufacturing process so mid and low level manufacturers use it like crazy. No high end gun manufacturers use it that I’m aware.
 
Racer88 said:
I hear similar claims about the CEO of Sig, who apparently previously ran down Kimber's reputation.
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Ron Cohen.
He has a black thumb when it comes to ruining a previously thriving company. How he keeps getting hired is a mystery.
Well, short term profits over long term health of the company. He probably plans to jump ship before the backlash.
 
FrankenGlock said:
Powdered metal, yep, still crap in guns today. It’s called MIM. For those that have worked with MIM, it’s like glued together sand and comes apart that way. Looks fine from the outside but when you get into it you realize this is not normal steel. It’s weaker than billet parts and prone to having issues in guns but is a much cheaper and faster manufacturing process so mid and low level manufacturers use it like crazy. No high end gun manufacturers use it that I’m aware.
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I'm sure there was a study to determine the life of the MIM parts and they figure the typical gun owner isn't going to fire the gun that much in his lifetime.
This is why I gravitate to old school guns.
 
no4mk1t said:
I'm sure there was a study to determine the life of the MIM parts and they figure the typical gun owner isn't going to fire the gun that much in his lifetime.
This is why I gravitate to old school guns.
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I just use better parts in my builds. If you don’t know where to shop, the billet parts can be 3 to 5 times more expensive than their MIM equivalent. If you are using a gun for EDC, I highly recommend using upgraded firing pins as that is the part most likely to break. Glock MIM strikers break at the lug and the tip. The Gen 5 firing pins went to a much larger tip to help with the issue but it still can and does occur on Gen 5 parts. I’ve found Brownell’s sells billet firing pins and rumor is their store brand Glock parts and slides are made by Zev.
 
I'm trying to keep an open mind about this entire scenario. 😎 While there MIGHT be a defect(s) in the P320, I feel that IF there is, it is exacerbated/initiated by human error. As has been proven time and time again, many UCs, while initially blamed on the gun, with resulting uproar and "I told you so"s, end up being caused by unsafe gun handling and/or extraneous reasons.

Sure, some gootoobers have demonstrated malfunctions (for clicks) but I would question their authenticity... :rolleyes: The "human" factor is just too easily ruled in as a cause for UCs. :unsure: If someone isn't function testing a gun after cleaning/lubing/inspecting, they are at fault. But many modern day humans are loath to accept personal responsibility for their fuck-ups, especially when a lucrative payday may be involved. 😠

The PLCAA is a very good piece of legislation but it doesn't protect a mfg if their product is demonstrably defective. While the court of public opinion is divided on the P320 being "defective", scumbag slipNfalls are waiting in the wings, licking their lips and wringing their hands waiting for the time to bring lawsuits. Personally, I think SIG should probably have had a "recall" early on, as soon as UCs started becoming more common. BUT, this would be akin to an admission of guilt, and the lawsuit floodgates will most certainly open... :(
 
Bobster said:
I'm trying to keep an open mind about this entire scenario. 😎 While there MIGHT be a defect(s) in the P320, I feel that IF there is, it is exacerbated/initiated by human error. As has been proven time and time again, many UCs, while initially blamed on the gun, with resulting uproar and "I told you so"s, end up being caused by unsafe gun handling and/or extraneous reasons.

Sure, some gootoobers have demonstrated malfunctions (for clicks) but I would question their authenticity... :rolleyes: The "human" factor is just too easily ruled in as a cause for UCs. :unsure: If someone isn't function testing a gun after cleaning/lubing/inspecting, they are at fault. But many modern day humans are loath to accept personal responsibility for their fuck-ups, especially when a lucrative payday may be involved. 😠

The PLCAA is a very good piece of legislation but it doesn't protect a mfg if their product is demonstrably defective. While the court of public opinion is divided on the P320 being "defective", scumbag slipNfalls are waiting in the wings, licking their lips and wringing their hands waiting for the time to bring lawsuits. Personally, I think SIG should probably have had a "recall" early on, as soon as UCs started becoming more common. BUT, this would be akin to an admission of guilt, and the lawsuit floodgates will most certainly open... :(
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They already had one recall. Should have had a second. Now it looks like they may be in real hot water if the military demands their money back. It could be a real possibility. If so, they are sunk. People are not quite liquidating the 320 but they are giving out some massive discounts. I thought the gun was never a value and looks wise not the best so I didn’t get one.
 
Maybe the latest 320 "build" thread needs to be merged as I forgot this thread was here and posted THIS there with a bunch of vids, etc... 😟
 
Bobster said:
Maybe the latest 320 "build" thread needs to be merged as I forgot this thread was here and posted THIS there with a bunch of vids, etc... 😟
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But this isn't a build thread. And now that I looked... this really belongs in the Factory Sig forum section.
 
Same announcement, different source

Air Force Global Strike Command clears M18 pistol’s return to duty

Not great results, 191 pistols out of 7,970 checked had problems with the Striker, Sear, and/or Safeties. While Global Strike Command (can we please just go back to calling it SAC) has returned the pistols that passed this checkout into service, they are still going to though the rest of the 125,000 pistols in USAF use.

While perhaps not build thread, it is absolutely relevant to anyone building a P320 or a MUP-1. The parts in question are what the builder is going to use, be they from JSD or any other SIG parts vendor.
 
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How many of you would carry a gun that had a greater than 2% chance of a fatal flaw? Not this guy. Not sure I would own a gun with a fatal flaw even if it was range only.
 
clm2112 said:
While perhaps not build thread, it is absolutely relevant to anyone building a P320 or a MUP-1. The parts in question are what the builder is going to use, be they from JSD or any other SIG parts vendor.
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Sure... but we can have two threads... one relevant to building a Sig 320 and another for the factory Sigs. If I merge them... which of the two sections would it belong in? :)
 
Racer88 said:
Sure... but we can have two threads... one relevant to building a Sig 320 and another for the factory Sigs. If I merge them... which of the two sections would it belong in? :)
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Perhaps having separate "Builds" and "Factory Guns" areas doesn't matter much where the SIG P320 and P250 is concerned. The only differences between a MUP-1 and a Factory FCU is whose name is stamped into the metal. The rest of the build and customize choices are the same for both fire control units. It is kind of a unique animal... while a Polymer80 is sorta like a Glock and shares parts but has unique problems all its own, a MUP-1 is a SIG in every respect but in name.
 
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FrankenGlock said:
Powdered metal, yep, still crap in guns today. It’s called MIM. For those that have worked with MIM, it’s like glued together sand and comes apart that way. Looks fine from the outside but when you get into it you realize this is not normal steel. It’s weaker than billet parts and prone to having issues in guns but is a much cheaper and faster manufacturing process so mid and low level manufacturers use it like crazy. No high end gun manufacturers use it that I’m aware.
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How do I tell what my Glock parts are? Magnet? I haven't had any failures yet but.....
 
Racer88 said:
Sure... but we can have two threads... one relevant to building a Sig 320 and another for the factory Sigs. If I merge them... which of the two sections would it belong in? :)
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Don't merge, just make a SIG 320 catch-all sub-forum. Builds, defects, lawsuits, range reports, etc. Just throw them in... ;)
 
Peepsight said:
How do I tell what my Glock parts are? Magnet? I haven't had any failures yet but.....
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The only part that is likely to fail on a Glock is the firing pin. From my understanding, the older ones are billet while the Gen 5 stuff is all MIM. The firing pin safeties on the Gen 5 are also all MIM. I don't feel any of the parts that Glock uses pose a serious safety concern due to the design of the safe action system.
 
FrankenGlock said:
The only part that is likely to fail on a Glock is the firing pin. From my understanding, the older ones are billet while the Gen 5 stuff is all MIM. The firing pin safeties on the Gen 5 are also all MIM. I don't feel any of the parts that Glock uses pose a serious safety concern due to the design of the safe action system.
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My slide is gen 2 original, no new parts. 1989 F.O.P. Frame is gen 3 replacement. Only changes are a Zev connector
 
When this all blows over, the conclusion will probably be: It ain't a Glock, follow the fucking directions for field strip and reassembly. All the videos I've seen except a few omit the importance of locking the slide back with the slide stop when putting the slide back on. Only a couple of videos demonstrate the importance of that. All the videos of the striker dropping skip over how it was assembled. One video showed the guy put it back together using Glock rules, was able to insert a magazine when it wasn't supposed to go in and got the striker to drop.

SIG designed a pistol with dainty, tight tolerance parts that prevent the pistol from being assembled incorrectly, the mag block function. These fail safes are not idiot proof and the village idiots found the weakness quickly. SIG needs to get off their high horse and accept the fact that factory trained armorers are not always working on these and they the safety features need to be more robust. SIG could be more J&J about this and end the crisis quickly but they have not chosen that path. Not having to drop the striker by pulling the trigger was a worthy goal, how it works in real life needs some fine tuning.

Some young Airman took advantage of a good crisis to pop a cap in someone banging his boyfriend or girlfriend. Sorry, new military and it is the Air Force after all. The pistol was cleared, the Airman was not.

Who knew, the SIG 250 was a better design all along.
 
bkbrno said:
SIG designed a pistol with dainty, tight tolerance parts that prevent the pistol from being assembled incorrectly, the mag block function. These fail safes are not idiot proof and the village idiots found the weakness quickly.
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THIS! ^^^^
You think you wouldn't have to "dummy-proof" a pistol or its dis-assembly/re-assembly but SIG tried to do. :rolleyes: They made a simple thing (striker) complex so unsafe people wouldn't shoot themselves (ie: if mag inserted/gun not unloaded when disassembling) and now it has come back to bite them and no amount of instructional videos by the VP will help. :rolleyes:

I forget which 320 thread I posted to but the fanboi with three 320s among other SIGs was shooting IDPA at this Titusville, FL club. LINK He's even invited me to shoot an IDPA there and I may have to once they resume next month. But like the CFRPC, they have banned the 320. :rolleyes: Me: "What are you going to use to shoot?" "I'll be using my Staccato." Well lahty-dah! :rolleyes: ;) I guess he's having to send it out to milled/drilled for an optic...

trpcban.JPG


I'm noticing prices finally coming down at the local guntrader (FL). This is just a small sampling...

320cheap.JPG
 
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