Bringing an old motor out of long-term storage...

[clm2112]

First turn of the key on a motor I rebuilt twenty years ago.... it has been bagged, fogged with oil, and sitting on an engine cart for a loooooong time.


View: https://youtu.be/I6ftL187MOM

Nothing particularly special, I just wanted to see if it worked after all these years. It is a GM 5.0L V8 out of a 1990 C/K pickup. Bored 0.030 over and converted to marine use. The fresh-water cooling system allows you to get away with some things that you normally don't do on boat motors (like using aluminum intake manifolds and water pumps) because the long block is never exposed to salt water.

So, this motor was the collection of spare parts turned into a home-made copy of a Mercruiser/OMC/Volvo-Penta stern drive engine.

The video clip is short, I don't have the raw-water side of the cooling system hooked up yet so I can only run the motor for a few second. Maybe Sunday I'll hook a garden hose up to it so I can run it longer. Still need to set the timing, adjust the carb, and check for leaks.

Just another item ticked off the project checklist.

 

[clm2112]

I would have to dig through my notes from two decades ago... but the basic specs are in the video description on screw-tube. I got the short block as a re-buildable core from LKQ in Daytona Beach, out of a wrecked 1990 pickup truck. The overbore of the bare block was done at a machine shop in Holly-Hill, Florida. The heads are stock GM from the late 1960's or early 1970's production with the pushrod guides drilled out to run self-aligning rocker arms. At the time, Crane Cams was one of my IT customers, and sometimes my bill was payable in parts from their inventory So that is where the camshaft, push-rods, and timing chain came from. In retrospect, I probably should have gone with Vortec heads, but they were brand new at the time and I stuck to what I knew would work. So this motor is definitely a slice of 1990's hot-rod tech.

Everything else was just accumulated used and left-over odds bits from other people's boat projects, with a few new fiddly-bits I purchased and never used until now. Time to clear out the boxes of junk.

I think this is going to be the last boat project for me. I've done enough of them for other people, and would like to finish one up for myself. The hull is a stripped 19' Celebrity bow-rider that is currently just a bare fiberglass hull casting. Now that I know I have a functional engine, I'll probably spend more time on getting a transom, stringers, and deck into that hull for this motor to attach to. It is going to be a very unique boat when it is finished... not too many center-consoles V-hulls out there with stern drives (there's probably a good reason everyone else uses outboard motors on them, but I've always marched to a different tune. )

 

[bkbrno]

A lot of center console fishing boats up until the 90's had I/O power. Seacraft is one of my favorites. I was on the hunt for one in the 90's. Most were I/O powered. My neighbor had a Grady with twin I/Os. The motor hump didn't seem to slow down his fishing much. Heck, people spend big money on platforms to stand on, he had one built in for free. If the Celebrity was set up for I/O already, it's a lot less work unless the transom is rotted.

Somewhere around this time, outboards got a lot better and boats were adapted to them. I/Os can be a cost effective option. I think Volvo Penta and Mercury 5.0L were rated at 200-220HP. I don't think GLM manifolds have the best reputation in salt water. The manifolds are raw water cooled. Flush early and often.

 

[no4mk1t]

Many years ago in another life, I was an OMC Master Tech. Didn't work on Mercruiser too often.
OMC always used Quadrajets on the V8 GM Stern Drives.
Is that Holley a Marine rated carb? Marine carbs are internally vented inside the flash arrestor.

Same for the distributor and alternator. Marine versions have flash arrestor screens.

Being we are surrounded here by freshwater lakes, never saw many saltwater engines thankfully, so most of the Stern Drives were simply cooled by lake water. The only closed cooling system I can remember seeing was a 4 cyl. Merc I/O 470 with an aluminum block and Ford V8 cyl. head. It had a tubular heat exchanger mounted on the port side and ran antifreeze internally.

Only reason we had it was the owner assumed that it didn't need to be winterized because it had antifreeze in it. However, the heat exchanger still needed the fresh water in it drained out. He didn't think that part through.
Luckily, it just broke the solder joint on the endcap and didn't split it.

 

[clm2112]

Many years ago in another life, I was an OMC Master Tech. Didn't work on Mercruiser too often.
OMC always used Quadrajets on the V8 GM Stern Drives.
Is that Holley a Marine rated carb? Marine carbs are internally vented inside the flash arrestor.

Same for the distributor and alternator. Marine versions have flash arrestor screens.

Being we are surrounded here by freshwater lakes, never saw many saltwater engines thankfully, so most of the Stern Drives were simply cooled by lake water. The only closed cooling system I can remember seeing was a 4 cyl. Merc I/O 470 with an aluminum block and Ford V8 cyl. head. It had a tubular heat exchanger mounted on the port side and ran antifreeze internally.

Only reason we had it was the owner assumed that it didn't need to be winterized because it had antifreeze in it. However, the heat exchanger still needed the fresh water in it drained out. He didn't think that part through.
Luckily, it just broke the solder joint on the endcap and didn't split it.

Yes to the carb (it is the marine version with the "J" vent tubes.) It was off a Volvo-Penta 4.3 GL

Yes to the distributor. But unlike the earlier Mallory or HEI distributors, there is no difference between the automotive and marine version of the Delco EST distributor, they have identical bodies with mesh screens. Only the cap is different with the marine version, with a vac fitting to vent it to the intake manifold. The module in it is a Delco D1965A, which handles the timing curve internally, instead of the normal automotive modules that spit the timing pulses out for a external computer to chew on and feed back as a trigger signal. Sooooo... you only need one wire to operate this distributor and coil, just the 12VDC ignition. You do have the option of using the extra set-timing wire on the shift switch to kill the ignition while the drive is going in and out of gear. It is a great upgrade to older ignition systems, and much better than the Thunderbolt igntion module.

No to the alternator for the moment... it is currently a Delco 10-SI, but I needed one on the motor to tension the belt and run the circulating pump off the crank. I currently don't have a marine Delco as a spare part. Not hard to come by, just not in my bin of spare parts.

Most of my experience was with Mercruiser of the late 1980's to early 2000's... in other words, all GM motors paired mostly to Alpha I drives. A few Volvo-Penta motors mostly 4.3L V6 paired with SX drives (just a re-badged OMC Cobra) And all of it in saltwater. I saw a lot of low hour dead engines in Florida... mostly the raw water cooled motors with owner neglect (bellows, flappers, and just plain sunk.)

Working on creating a wiring harness for it. (the standard 9-pin round engine harness connector) to get it ready to mate to a boat hull harnes. Probably need to buy one, since most of the wire I have was pretty badly corroded.

Just back from a 3-day hiatus without power. Tornado passed by and took out a bunch of trees and power lines. West Penn Power just got me hooked up again about two hours ago. Looking forward to a hot shower.

 

[clm2112]

Before the power went out, I was able to finish hooking up the raw water side of the cooling system. I had to make a pair of 90 degree elbows (3/4 NPT to the exhaust manifold to 3/4" hose barb with a 1/4" NPT drain valve added to it.) So, draining the raw water side is a piece of cake.... open the valves on the manifolds and the valve on the supply line from the drive and all the raw water in the heat exchanger and manifolds dumps into the bilge and out the drain plug in the transom.

Now I can hook up a garden hose and run the engine for more than a few seconds at a time. Next day off I'll roll it back out of the garage and set the timing. I also have a few rebuilt carbs to test out for other people.... a pretty eclectic mix of Q-Jets, Motorcraft 2150's, and Holley 2 barrel and 4 barrel carbs. It will be several days of checking them for leaks, setting basic adjustments, and test running them for a little bit before sending them on their way.

 

[clm2112]

Easy way to spot a marine Holley carb... take the flame arrestor off and look for the vent tubes.

Marine carbs have to dump excess fuel from the fuel bowl into the intake manifold. Most automotive carbs have vents that dump into the air cleaner. It is a unique feature of marine carbs that make them safer to use on a boat. The engine bays on a car are open to the ground, so a fuel spill caused by a stuck fuel valve or sunk float in the bowl ends up on the ground. A boat isn't supposed to have a hole in the bottom so a fuel spill ends up in the bilge where it will eventually turn to vapor and might go boom.

There is also a few minor internal differences with regards to the bowl vent baffles and the pocket around the power valve. You can convert any Holley 4150 or 4160 for marine use by just adding these components. But you will have to make your own vent tubes and press them into the body of the carb. Not hard, but Holley doesn't sell them as spare parts, they are considered part of the body.

The carb in the photo is off a Volvo-Penta 4.3 GL (Holley 4160 with J vents.) The fuel supply line is just temporary to test the motor out. On an engine ready for installation, the pressurized fuel line needs to be metal, so before I install it, I'll need to fabricate one out of 3/8 tubing between the pump and the carb. The low pressure side of the pump is allowed to be A-15 rubber line.

 

[clm2112]

I think Volvo Penta and Mercury 5.0L were rated at 200-220HP. I don't think GLM manifolds have the best reputation in salt water. The manifolds are raw water cooled. Flush early and often.

From my experience, nothing has a good reputation when it comes to salt water

The GLM aluminum manifolds need the same care as the OEM iron manifolds... Like you said, flush early and often. They do have one extra chore over the iron ones... they have zinc sacrificial anode plugs that need checked and replaced. You do them at the same time as the anodes on the drive. They are cheap enough.... and the spent ones make pretty good bullets when you melt them down

On the plus side, they are cheaper and far lighter than the iron manifolds and risers, which shaves a good 30+ lbs off the installed motor. Like any other exhaust, the whole system should be checked over at least once a year during the winterization process to catch corroded elbows, split boots, missing flapper valves, torn bellows etc, etc. Most of the problems I ran across was from owners neglecting the routine maintenance and just doing dumb things, like parking the trailered boat and leaving the drive up in the trailering position.

And yeah, the transom on the boat was rotted out plywood. That is pretty much the norm for any boat of this era. Still, I'm pretty good at doing transoms and keyhole cuts. It's a pain in the ass, but I've done enough of them and don't consider it any worse than doing the transom on an outboard boat. (Funny thing is that a lot of I/O drive hulls also came in an outboard configuration... same hull mold but with a different deck casting to finish it off with an area for the outboard's power head.) I just like having an engine I understand and nothing screams simplicity like a small block chevy.

 

[bkbrno]

My first set of manifolds on my VP big block lasted 6 years. I about passed out when I priced new VP manifolds but I wiped away the tears and wrote the check. I don't know what the manufacturing change was but the second set was going strong after 10 years. I sold the boat after 16 years. Man, I miss the big block sound and power. I think the big change was that I quit draining them completely, left water or anti ice fluid in them all the time. No O2 to complete the rust cycle maybe???

I was looking at manifolds from a place in FL called Stainless Marine. I couldn't find any info on them. I called the company and got very short non descriptive answers beyond, yeah, we have manifolds for that engine. Didn't have a warm fuzzy. Turns out a local guy with a good reputation only uses their manifolds. I described my conversation with Stainless. He kind of chuckled and told me I was talking to the owner who hated talking on the phone. The owner has forgotten more about manifolds than most ever knew. The mechanic says he sends a picture of the installed engine, they send manifolds that fit perfectly and all the brackets are in the right place. I don't think GLM makes big block manifolds or they only make them for Mercruiser, can't remember, out of the I/O game now.

I invented a whole new category of swear words installing the cast iron manifolds. They were not light and the there was not much room to work. I swore I would never do that job again. That's why I have an outboard now.

Many think they can replace a transom and stringers. Most fail at it. You have my respect for getting a few done. I've built a couple of kayaks with wood and epoxy. The one thing I learned is that no matter how water tight you think it is, it isn't.

 

[clm2112]

Never had any dealings with Stainless Marine, they were down in Miami and catered to a different crowd than what I worked on. Usually folks who blew the motor in a Sea-Ray, Bayliner, or something on the lower end was what I dealt with. The off-shore racing was not my thing. 316 Stainless is great material for dealing with corrosion, but it is very labor intensive if you want to fabricate a water cooled manifold out of it and not have the welds rot out. Naturally reflected in the price tag. That put them way out of the budget most of my customers could afford (come to think out it, it was out of the budget for what I could afford too )

Glass work is pretty easy. Just time consuming and messy. I think too many people get frustrated with the process before getting enough experience to know where the wetted out glass wants to go. Or they don't have the patience to do the prep work. I learned to do it repairing motorcycle fairings for road-racing bikes. Made some molds of discontinued parts to reproduce them too. Working on a hull is easier, but it is just so much larger. I'm also not a big fan of marine plywood. The synthetic stuff, like Coosa board, is better for the price of what you get when reproducing parts originally made from plywood sheet.

That said, I'm not planning on replacing the transom and stringers in the traditional manner. I wouldn't recommend what I'm going to do to anyone else, but I'm going to laminate it out of 1/2" thick Locust strips, and do it inside the hull. Mostly because locust is naturally rot-resistant, is native to my area, and I have a nearly unlimited supply of it with the means to mill it. The technique is an old one and is not used in modern construction except for the folks who are into making wooden hulls from scratch. Most people take a plywood sheet and try to cut it match the shape of the hull. And end up with gaps that collect water to start the rotting process on the exposed end grain. I'll be making the "plywood" in the hull, one layer at a time, bending it to follow the curves of the hull so the grain follows the hull form.

 

[bkbrno]

The Stainless Marine manifolds were a $500 premium over VP OEM which was a $600 premium over aftermarket. Nobody made an exact fit for the VP 8.1L. I would have paid it gladly after lifting and holding the manifolds in with one handed while trying to get little nuts on the studs balancing on one toe and other hand, bent over into a space barely big enough for a six year old. I'm not rich but I will spend money where it makes sense.

I got 10 years out of the updated VP manifolds which is what SM promised so I "saved" $500, right?

I'm enjoying watching this project. Making something from cast off parts is so satisfying. Messing about on boats and fishing are the best life extending activities ever.

 

[Bobster]

A little OT but since you've mentioned fiberglass, I want to throw a coat of white gel coat on this slide. It is still smooth (fibers aren't exposed) so I'm figuring a little rinsing and scrubbing to clean it and maybe a scuff with purple Scotchbrite before an acetone wipe. Then what would you do and use? I'm not really near the coast or convenient to any marine stores. While mainly for aesthetics, it is also to protect it and keep it functional.

I'd rather spend zero dollars since the I'm the only one that uses the pool and even then maybe once a week? When the kids were kids, the pool and slide were used every day but they haven't been in it in at least a year. But I understand there will be costs involved and it is not cheap to keep the pool swimmable with all the chemicals and such. I just got it cleared out after the wife let it go green. She had one job...

 

[bkbrno]

Gel coat isn't cheap. It is a process I never did. All I know is that there are several types of gel coat and each has a very specific use. Gel coat doesn't flow out and flatten smooth. You have to sand and buff afterwards. It's one of the few boat related tasks I just call the experts.

Something like Petit EZ-Poxy paint would be easier to apply and get a smoother finish. I don't see my favorite top side paint available anywhere, System 3 WR-LPU. It seems it was pulled from the market several years ago. That sucks. It was water borne and didn't stink up the shop.

 

[clm2112]

A little OT but since you've mentioned fiberglass, I want to throw a coat of white gel coat on this slide. It is still smooth (fibers aren't exposed) so I'm figuring a little rinsing and scrubbing to clean it and maybe a scuff with purple Scotchbrite before an acetone wipe. Then what would you do and use? I'm not really near the coast or convenient to any marine stores. While mainly for aesthetics, it is also to protect it and keep it functional.

I'd rather spend zero dollars since the I'm the only one that uses the pool and even then maybe once a week? When the kids were kids, the pool and slide were used every day but they haven't been in it in at least a year. But I understand there will be costs involved and it is not cheap to keep the pool swimmable with all the chemicals and such. I just got it cleared out after the wife let it go green. She had one job...

Probably the best mail order source for fiber-glassing materials is US Composites. They are pretty reasonable. You want gel-coat without wax added for doing repair work, along with a spray-on mold release to use on the last layer of the repair.

Gel-coat is polyester resin with a lot of filler added. You catalyze it with MEK (methy-ethyl-ketone) to start the chemical reaction that harden it. The catch is that it will remain tacky if it is allowed to cure in the presence of air. So, they add wax to it and form a barrier that floats to the top of the layer to make it cure with a hard skin.

So, to repair the slide you will be applying multiple coats of gel-coat like paint. You want each coat to remain tacky to allow each layer to bond to the layer below. When you get the last layer on, you spray it with mold release to create the air barrier and make the top layer cure with a hard skin.

Prep the slide like you are going to paint it. Just before applying the layers of gel-coat, wipe the slide down with Acetone. The slide is most likely made from polyester resin and chopped strand glass. So the gel-coat is already compatible chemically. Acetone dissolves polyester resin, creating that tacky layer to make the new gel-coat adhere to the old glass and existing gel-coat.

 

[Bobster]

Something like Petit EZ-Poxy paint would be easier to apply and get a smoother finish.

Probably the best mail order source for fiber-glassing materials is US Composites. They are pretty reasonable. You want gel-coat without wax added for doing repair work, along with a spray-on mold release to use on the last layer of the repair.

Thank you both for talking me out of gel-coating the slide. The prices weren't bad LINK but it quickly became a major project without me even lifting a finger... The surface is still smooth and about all I would have time for is a quick clean with a bin at the bottom of the slide to keep run-off from going into the pool, then brush/roll something on to make it presentable and maybe even functional.

There are squirters that wet the slide to lubricate it that I created out of brass fittings--original were plastic. To get them functional, we would have to run a garden hose (original feed was inop) and connect to them. But what we would usually just do is take a bucket of pool water and pour it down the slide before someone would go down.

 

[clm2112]

Thank you both for talking me out of gel-coating the slide. The prices weren't bad LINK but it quickly became a major project without me even lifting a finger... The surface is still smooth and about all I would have time for is a quick clean with a bin at the bottom of the slide to keep run-off from going into the pool, then brush/roll something on to make it presentable and maybe even functional.

There are squirters that wet the slide to lubricate it that I created out of brass fittings--original were plastic. To get them functional, we would have to run a garden hose (original feed was inop) and connect to them. But what we would usually just do is take a bucket of pool water and pour it down the slide before someone would go down.

Happy to help

The best "plan B" approach is to use an epoxy based paint (like POR-15) to paint it. Still use Acetone to prep the old gel coat so you get a good bond.

Plan C - polish the existing gel coat with a decent rubbing compound to remove the oxidized layer (the white chalky dust) and follow up by waxing the crap out of it with a good carnauba paste wax. I use mold release wax, which is pure carnauba wax without any cleaning chemicals added. It is the same stuff that was used in the mold when the slide was made, as well as being the wax that was mixed into the original gel-coat.

 

[Bobster]

Plan C - polish the existing gel coat with a decent rubbing compound to remove the oxidized layer...

If you look at the pic, it is down to the brown. That wear is just from the sun, mainly. I'll inspect it a little better to see if it is even worth saving. As I'm the only one who does projects around here, it is down on the list. Since it was "sort of" topical and sort of a rare topic at that (ie: fiberglass), I thought I'd inquire.

Over 20 years ago, the bolts that held the diving board base in were rotted, so I removed the base and ground the bolts flush with the deck. I gooped up the holes to seal it so I might re-install the board at a later date but never did. That project fell off the list decades ago. The kids used the pool without the board just fine.

Just like a boat is a big hole in the water you throw money into, a swimming pool is a big hole in the ground you throw money into. With the cost of chemicals and chlorine nowadays, it is probably $100+/month just to maintain it. With the yearly filter at $100 and other unexpected costs like a cracked chlorinator ($300) or filter T-handle ($80) a pool is definitely a luxury. I'd love to have a "pool boy" and I'd even let him boink the wife (if he dared ) but that's $200+/month.

It was money well spent to have a pool to entertain the kids once they learned how to swim (~2yrs old). Any friends that came over also knew how to swim. They would spend all afternoon out there and were good about putting on sunscreen. I had my kids bring a half-cinder block up from the deep end (~10') to simulate "rescuing" a non-swimmer friend but those kids were rare in our neighborhood. Both kids were on the YMCA swim team and did good in their age brackets (6? and 8?). I'm proud to have taught them a life-long skill.

Since I've gone WAY off the topical deep-end here (pun intended), I used to work in a factory that made sailboats. 35' & 45' or so. Basic cruisers, not real luxurious. I was a mechanic/electrician, fairly easy job wiring and running plumbing and such. Didn't really have to come in contact with many solvents. That was left to the Portagees (Portuguese) that would wipe down the molds outside with acetone or whatever. One thing that struck me was during break, a couple of them would be smoking cigs, hands visibly shaking. I don't know if it was the chemicals or their lack of using a respirator but I ALWAYS used one when possible.

PS: I didn't mention this house was a "fixer-upper" and when we moved in, the pool was half-filled and green. There was what looked to be a swan floating in it but it turned out to be plastic. The surface needed to be re-done and that was about $10,000, maybe more, I forget.

 

[bkbrno]

Gel coat is the absolutely correct way to do it, but... It will involve a few tools you will not likely use again. The slide might possibly be made with vinyl ester resin. The color of the bare spots makes me lean that way. Darker reddish brown vs. pinker looking. Could be how the photo comes out on the site. Vinyl ester and polyester resins are close but not entirely compatible. Epoxy doesn't play nice with vinyl ester either but fine with polyester resin. Epoxy is not UV resistant even the UV resistant formulas. The cost and time penalty of something going wrong with gel coat isn't worth it to me given my lack of experience with it.

Roll and tip painting with Petit or Interlux paint is well known and pretty foolproof. With just a little practice, you will have a gel coat looking finish. It's good for 5-10 years depending on color and latitude. Easy to touch up and redo in the future. I'm at an age where redoing something like a slide is statistically my last time I have to deal with it.

Slides and diving boards are huge liabilities on top of the liability of the pool. No sense having it if you aren't using it. The scrap heap may be the best place for the slide.