Article Link! When I decided I might want a gun, I answered truthfully on the application’s “race” question. I soon learned what I’d done.

Racer88 said:
The problem isn't your race. It's your STATE OF RESIDENCE (NJ).
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I read the first few paragraphs to get a "feel" for the story, knowing that it was coming from Slate. :rolleyes: Quickly determined it was probably going to be a "racist" piece, scrolled down and skimmed to verify (yes), decided it was TLDR, read some of the comments (about 50/50 split pro/con) and came back here to tell others not to waste their time. ;)

My takeaway is that if you need a (may issue) permit to carry, buy or own a gun in your state, some anonymous bureaucrat may determine either by your race choice ("choose white" ;) ) and/or first and last name ("choose Smith" :D ) if you are "OK" to have a gun. With the name Aymann Ismail, the author is denied. He writes from a NJ standpoint, and very little applies to Free states that don't give a shit about the color of your skin or how you spell your name. :cool:

Like it or not, EVERYONE is innocuously but observationally racist to a certain extent. For example: Tom Jones or Leroy Jones--which man is black? :rolleyes: I've known a few white guys named Leroy and a few black guys named Tom so that is not a good example. Or is it? :unsure: I heard a radio story on NPR where they did a "sting" operation with some corporation hiring for an administrative assistant. "Sean Williams" got a call back where "LaShawn Williams" did not. (or something like that)

If you want to see another garbage "gun" story from Slate, this one is clearly anti-MAGA/pro-LGBTQFUCKYOU+. It is also only about a paragraph before it goes behind a paywall. LINK
 
Bobster said:
I read the first few paragraphs to get a "feel" for the story, knowing that it was coming from Slate. :rolleyes: Quickly determined it was probably going to be a "racist" piece, scrolled down and skimmed to verify (yes), decided it was TLDR, read some of the comments (about 50/50 split pro/con) and came back here to tell others not to waste their time. ;)

My takeaway is that if you need a (may issue) permit to carry, buy or own a gun in your state, some anonymous bureaucrat may determine either by your race choice ("choose white" ;) ) and/or first and last name ("choose Smith" :D ) if you are "OK" to have a gun. With the name Aymann Ismail, the author is denied. He writes from a NJ standpoint, and very little applies to Free states that don't give a shit about the color of your skin or how you spell your name. :cool:

Like it or not, EVERYONE is innocuously but observationally racist to a certain extent. For example: Tom Jones or Leroy Jones--which man is black? :rolleyes: I've known a few white guys named Leroy and a few black guys named Tom so that is not a good example. Or is it? :unsure: I heard a radio story on NPR where they did a "sting" operation with some corporation hiring for an administrative assistant. "Sean Williams" got a call back where "LaShawn Williams" did not. (or something like that)

If you want to see another garbage "gun" story from Slate, this one is clearly anti-MAGA/pro-LGBTQFUCKYOU+. It is also only about a paragraph before it goes behind a paywall. LINK
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I lost interest in the article after a few paragraphs since it was about race. It may be factual and maybe not. I really don’t understand why a person’s race is on the 4473?
 
seniormoment said:
I lost interest in the article after a few paragraphs since it was about race. It may be factual and maybe not. I really don’t understand why a person’s race is on the 4473?
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The only reaosn I can think is that it may be necessary to help with the background check - if there are records from a number of people with the same name? I dunno. Just guessing.
 
Bobster said:
and very little applies to Free states that don't give a shit about the color of your skin or how you spell your name. :cool:
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In Free states there IS NO SUCH APPLICATION to begin with. So, even if they DID "care" about your skin color, they'll never know, because WE don't have to beg permission to buy a gun. We don't have gun purchase permits.
 
Racer88 said:
In Free states there IS NO SUCH APPLICATION to begin with. So, even if they DID "care" about your skin color, they'll never know, because WE don't have to beg permission to buy a gun. We don't have gun purchase permits.
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True. But IF you wanted a CWL from FL (as an example), they require info from you. The instructions are vague whether or not leaving the space for race blank is disqualifying/rejecting. Social Security number IS optional. :unsure:

Nowadays, all CWL apps are processed online. The app/instructions .pdf attached are unique to MY inquiry but the number allows tracking of progress online. So NO ONE should utilize the sample I have attached--it is just for reference. As I have my permit already, you could consider the number void.

One of the requirements for a CWL are live-ammo based training. One example of acceptable proof (and also entirely free) is a FWC (Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission) Hunter's Safety course. You take the NRA's course online (free for FL residents), schedule to attend/pass a FWC Hunter Safety "field day" at a range near you, then in a week or less your "card" is in the mail or emailed. This satisfies the live-fire requirement.

My club's FWC Field Day consists of a three-ish hour classroom session, then over to the range to shoot three 12ga shells from a pump shotgun and ten .22LR rounds out of a single shot rifle, then back to the classroom for a 50Q open-book test. No one ever fails that I've seen.
 

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Bobster said:
True. But IF you wanted a CWL from FL (as an example), they require info from you. The instructions are vague whether or not leaving the space for race blank is disqualifying/rejecting. Social Security number IS optional. :unsure:
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This is not true. It's not true, because Florida is a SHALL ISSUE state. NJ is not. NJ, a MAY issue state, can reject your application for ANY reason. Florida cannot reject anyone unless they are a legally prohibited person. So, it doesn't matter what you put down as race. They can't reject you unless you have some legal history that prohibits you from a CCW license.

On the other hand, in NJ, they can reject you for ANY reason. So, it's easy to cover up if it is racism or simply a matter of not wanting you to have a "permit" to buy a gun. They can claim something else like your social media posts or the janitor at your elementary school doesn't like you.
 
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Racer88 said:
It's not true, because Florida is a SHALL ISSUE state. NJ is not.
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Yeah I get it... :rolleyes: I'm just trying to compare apples to apples here. So if one WANTED a FL permit, not that they NEED one, this is what they have to do. I like my FL CWL as it eliminates the 3-day waiting period as well as some other benefits. What is the NJ waiting period--like 10 days or something? :(

The race and gender info (and other info like place of birth) goes on the fingerprint card and is "probably" required for prints to be processed. Computer sees a blank space and spits the card back out and says "try it again".

IF I were to apply for a FL CWL again, I would go directly to my county office where they do everything right there. Prints, photo, entering info, checking ID and documents, etc. Card prints out in five minutes... When I renewed, the gal at the desk said her hours were cut back to only 3 days a week instead of 5 because of Constitutional Carry. :(
 
Bobster said:
The race and gender info (and other info like place of birth) goes on the fingerprint card and is "probably" required for prints to be processed. Computer sees a blank space and spits the card back out and says "try it again".
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Yes... it will spit it out for being INCOMPLETE... not because of the race you chose.

Again... Florida is a SHALL ISSUE state. If your application is completed correctly (which means no blanks other than those listed as "optional"), AND you don't have a CRIMINAL RECORD... you WILL be approved. Guaranteed.

Not so in NJ or NY or CA or MD or HI or IL (and maybe a few others I've left out).... the usual suspects.

You can't compare "apples to apples," because FL and most other states are NOTHING like the aforementioned tyrannical constitution-ignoring states. Also... in NJ, the permit being discussed in the article is just to BUY a gun... never mind carrying concealed. They need double-secret permission just to BUY one.
 
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