Flock ALPR Cameras

no4mk1t

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These are going up at an alarming rate all over.
In the UK, a group called the "Blade Runners" have been using battery sawzalls to combat the issue.
In CA, it seems the paint ball gun is the tool of choice.

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I'm just wondering if anyone remembers the opening scene in Cool Hand Luke?
Pipe cutter is a lot quieter than a sawzall... :ROFLMAO:

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Here is a map of all the camera locations nationwide and a routing feature to avoid the cameras in case you ever rob a bank... 😯

 
Here is a map of all the camera locations nationwide and a routing feature to avoid the cameras in case you ever rob a bank... 😯

Glad to see none in my neck of the woods.
 
Glad to see none in my neck of the woods.
I drive by at least two on my way out of town in ANY direction. I COULD avoid them but I'm not wanted so there is that. Any detour would be at least 5min.

But it seems the scanners are ALWAYS pinching someone with resultant police chase and so on.
 
The big issue here is privacy.
They promote these cameras as a public safety thing. Catch bad guys etc.
But we all know that if they can do something that is not intended, eventually they will.
The system is very capable of building a travel dossier on everyone.
They say the system default on saving pics is 90 days.
But each agency has the option to change that setting to indefinite if they want to.
How long do you think it will be before they start building a file on each of you?
 
The big issue here is privacy.
They promote these cameras as a public safety thing. Catch bad guys etc.
But we all know that if they can do something that is not intended, eventually they will.
The system is very capable of building a travel dossier on everyone.
They say the system default on saving pics is 90 days.
But each agency has the option to change that setting to indefinite if they want to.
How long do you think it will be before they start building a file on each of you?

I don't believe there is any reasonable or legal or constitutional expectation of privacy when you're out in public. Similarly, you can't stop me from taking a photo or video of you in a public space. Similarly, we can record public officials (including police) in a public space (as long as we are not interfering with their duties).

To my knowledge there is no legal expectation of privacy when you're in a public space, which would include out on the roads.
 
I don't believe there is any reasonable or legal or constitutional expectation of privacy when you're out in public. Similarly, you can't stop me from taking a photo or video of you in a public space. Similarly, we can record public officials (including police) in a public space (as long as we are not interfering with their duties).

To my knowledge there is no legal expectation of privacy when you're in a public space, which would include out on the roads.
It is quite a big difference between taking a random photo of you in public and having a system in place that records your every move.
They can say they are only looking for criminals now, but if the ability exists, they will eventually use it to build a file on us all. Right now, there is no legal constraint on this.
 
It is quite a big difference between taking a random photo of you in public and having a system in place that records your every move.

I did a little research. Interesting... So, the difference is whether ALL your movements are recorded and pieced together (without a warrant) or it's just random short recording in various places without them being assembled into a contiguous documentation of your movement.


  • United States v. Knotts (1983): Police used a beeper to track a car's movements on public roads. The Court ruled there was no reasonable expectation of privacy in movements visible on public thoroughfares, because anyone could have followed the car visually. Short-term visual or limited electronic tracking of public movements is generally allowed.

  • Carpenter v. United States (2018): The Court recognized a reasonable expectation of privacy in the "whole of one's physical movements" over time, even when those movements occur entirely in public. Police obtained 127 days of historical cell-site location information (CSLI) without a warrant; the Court held this was a search requiring a warrant. Long-term, comprehensive tracking (via technology) reveals intimate details of a person's life that society deems private, even in public spaces. This case limited earlier precedents like Knotts for modern digital surveillance.
 
This is an issue that will only expand in scope as time goes by. When the ALPR tech was rolled out, it's purpose was stated as crime prevention/solving/safety in areas that had a crime problem. They even named the company "Flock Safety" to make it sound benign. Flock Surveillance would have made it a harder sell to city councils.
Now they are rapidly being deployed everywhere.

Right now, the Flock cameras cannot perform facial recognition.
How long do you think it will be before a need is determined and that capability is added.

Even if they don't, right now Flock provides cloud storage for all the images and those images are available, supposedly, only to other LE agencies. As this article below states, some of these ALPR systems have already been hacked.
So, if you are annoyed by targeted advertising from your phone listening in, wait until your location data is sold to the data brokers.

Many Lowe's locations now have Flock cameras and share the data with LE. The three in my area have multiple cameras in their parking lots.

Recently, the FAA issued a directive that the ADSB system that is intended for flight safety purposes be used only for that.
It has been being used by FBO's to identify aircraft owners and bill them for all the fees FBO's are notorious for adding on to your bill.
More unintended consequences.

How long before states with budget deficits figure out that for the price of a few Flock cameras, any road can be a toll road. Same for the states talking about eliminating income/property tax. That money has to be made up elsewhere, because we all know gov't is not going to curtail spending. This would be a way to make out of staters pick up some of the tab in states with a lot of tourism.
Can you say, "low hanging fruit"? (there's a Florida pun in there somewhere) ;)

In the UK, the cameras are now used to levy "congestion fees" during certain hours in certain cities. They also use them to issue fines to ICE vehicles in "ZEZ" (zero emission zones). This is easy for them to do as all zero emissions vehicles have a green sticker on the license plate.

The point to all this is that surveillance is a slippery slope that as the tech becomes available and cheap is too tempting for gov't to ignore, both from a control aspect and as a revenue enhancement tool. Imagine getting a seat belt ticket in the mail from an automated system that creates revenue from camera images. Same for expired registration. Two new ways to pick your pocket where before they had one.

And if you are of the tin foil hat club, what do you think they will use if Claus Schwab gets his 15 minute city concept to fly? There are already 8-9 cities that have implemented or are about to implement the concept.
Right now, it's just encouraged, just like seat belt and hands free phone use was. Wouldn't it be awfully convenient if those "safety" cameras could be used for that too?

There is only one legal countermeasure to prevent your plate from being photographed, and it's not practical for daily use. None of the films/sprays/add on numbers are effective against the current generation of IR cameras. Most states also have added verbiage to their license plate statutes that prohibits anything that obscures the plate from electronic surveillance.

 
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So, if you are annoyed by targeted advertising from your phone listening in,

This is not a legitimate complaint, because it is ENTIRELY a consumer choice.

If your phone is listening to your conversations and feeding you ads based on that.... TURN THAT FEATURE OFF! It's the fucking simple, folks. Turn off the voice command feature, and I can PROMISE you that it won't happen. It's the first thing do when I get a phone. Turn that voice-assist crap OFF.

Also... don't bug your own house with a so-called "smart speaker!" DUH!

I can honestly say that I literally never EVER get ads based on my conversations, because I CHOSE to turn it off. DUH!
 
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This is not a legitimate complaint, because it is ENTIRELY a consumer choice.

If your phone is listening to your conversations and feeding you ads based on that.... TURN THAT FEATURE OFF! It's the fucking simple, folks. Turn off the voice command feature, and I can PROMISE you that it won't happen. It's the first thing do when I get a phone. Turn that voice-assist crap OFF.

Also... don't bug your own house with a so-called "smart speaker!" DUH!

I can honestly say that I literally never EVER get ads based on my conversations, because I CHOSE to turn it off. DUH!
Oh, I turned it off a long time ago.
Can't opt out of the Flock cameras though. And pretty soon there will be so many of them picking an alternate route won't be an option.
 
Oh, I turned it off a long time ago.
Can't opt out of the Flock cameras though. And pretty soon there will be so many of them picking an alternate route won't be an option.

I'll be honest... I don't give a fuck about "flock" cameras. There's NOTHING I can do about it. And I'm not THAT paranoid that I'd plot / navigate to avoid them. LOL! I can't believe anyone is that paranoid.... unless he has a REASON to be that paranoid.

I get the privacy issue. But I'm also old enough to pick my battles wisely. Sure, I'd rather they not exist. But there's nothing I can do to get rid of them. I'm not mapping out evasive routes so my car license plate isn't seen or recorded. I'm just not. I'm just going to get in my car and go about my day. I don't have time or the inclination.

But it's EASY for me to turn off the voice command on my phone. It's also easy to NOT install a bug inside my house. I have no use for such things, anyway.

Ironically, I'd bet 99% of those complaining about the cameras have their phones' voice command (full time mic) turned on.
 
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Just saying, in about 5 years, I believe the number and purpose of those cameras will be expanded.
 
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