My son just sent me this- is it factual

[One Ping Only]

What think ye?

 

[terraform]

Silencer companies think it’s legit… several are running some sizable rebate deals to try and get people to buy suppressors now instead of waiting till 2026.

I built an 80% AR pistol I’d love to SBR with a serialized lower (assuming that’s the legal process… I’m 99% sure that’s what I’d have to do but need to research more)… waiting to see how long the ATF back-log gets next year.

https://www.capitolarmory.com/blog/0-tax-stamps-the-details.html

 

[Racer88]

I thought this was old news by now. Yes... the BBB got rid of the NFA tax stamp fee.

 

[FrankenGlock]

Yes, old news. Lawsuits to get those items off the NFA as it will be a zero tax and you can't have a tax at zero so, in theory and probably intentional, those items will no longer be on the NFA. However, if those items are not firearms, in particular suppressors, the states can ban them.

 

[One Ping Only]

I thought this was old news by now. Yes... the BBB got rid of the NFA tax stamp fee.

My bad for not keeping-up on that. I wasn't sure what officially changed....

 

[USApat]

waiting to see how long the ATF back-log gets next year.

My bad for not keeping-up on that. I wasn't sure what officially changed....

Here are some details below and sorry for a few of my diatribe comments.


Financial Penalties To ATF for Delayed "Tax Stamps":
============================================
I do believe there is a somewhat serious financial penalty to the ATF's annual budget if it's found they're dragging-ass issuing tax stamps out. I think ATF is required to ship documents within 60 or 90 days under the Big Beautiful Bill and the financial penalties kick into their budgets if they don't. I follow a lot of the laws drifting through the legal channels that are significant and I actually read the drafts and listen to hearings and read pleadings. Most gun sites did not pick up on this financial penalty for delayed tax stamps as it was buried in the 1000 page bill.

There were several draft bills floating around in the last 4-5 days of this budget fiasco and they did their best to hide the drafts online and Congress buried "draft bills" in obscure links only found by diligent readers. Also, because there were several versions that changed very quickly in 48-72 hours, you may want to confirm that this ATF financial penalty did in fact make it into the final version. You can zoom into the section about the gun stuff with a Ctrl+F search once the PDF is downloaded entirely on your computer. Don't do this online as your Ctrl+F search may not reach the entire document as some parts might be lazy loaded and not visible in the browser window. You can scroll all the way down to the end of the PDF file and this will load the entire document and then do the search and it will search the entire thousand page bill.

Law Suits regarding the Bill:
============================================
There are several Pro 2A lawsuits filed after the Big Beautiful Bill passed that are trying to torpedo some or all of the NFA. The plaintiffs base their arguments on the "cart before the horse" theory whereby if you can't tax the firearm product, then you can't have a law requiring you to register with the state on a list, so they can send you a receipt for $0.00 payment of a tax that is required under the original NFA law. It is a "tax law" and not a "gun registration law" in the state's eyes. There are other matters and claims with the suits if you want to look them up. So, the usual time period will prevail for gun lawsuits. Probably 3-5 years with lower courts, appeals and begging SCOTUS to take the case in the end. A hit or miss scenario, and likely a miss. I think the bumpstock issue took 6-7 years from start to finish.

The most visible suit is the GOA lawsuit filed immediately after the BB Bill passed. A summary and status is attached regarding the current filings in that case, along with a link to GOA's initial petition to the court. Many states have since joined this suit and it was filed in a North Texas court. Unfortunately, the docket, pleadings and filings are not public in that District Court. Well, technically they're available, but you have to pay a fee to gain access unlike some courts. So, we are somewhat limited to plaintiff or defendant updates as to the status unless you fork over the cash to read the court documents. A summary of those documents is attached.

Some of the media or gun groups may pay for this access, but I don't know which ones that may update online on a regular basis. It is far, far better and more clear to read the files yourself. It can be lengthy and time consuming to do though. I assume we will get updates from GOA when they decide to beg everyone for donations by email.

On that note, I am not happy that GOA was the primary entity negotiating with these congress critters during the BB Bill. GOA has a vested interest in seeing more litigation in ANY COURT CASE about 2A issues. They are part of the system and make money off it. If you believe the Wikipedia GOA page, they have received over $50-60 million in donations from members and yet they report $2.1 million in revenues and $2.3 million in expenses. Hmmmm,..... So where's the other $40-50 million going?

Last time I checked, it was about $30-35 to become a member during the heyday Biden gun grab era. So do the math there. $30 times 2 million. However, it appears to have gone down to $25 now during Trump's tenure, so perhaps they're hurting. The financial charts below from Wikipedia are dated 2015, so one would think more members will have joined and revenues increased due to the massive legal push by Biden's ATF.

As a side-note, if anyone is a lawyer for GOA here on this site, or wants to log in and become a member and comment here, please feel free to chime in. But, please don't chime in with a highly defensive poltical posture if you're a lawyer or Board member. You did that a couple of months back on Youtube and to be honest you looked like fools. Simple math works out that if you have 100,000 members, you have about $2 million dollars in revenues annually. Well, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you probably got near that number of members when the judge issued his first injuction on the pistol brace rule for the "parties involved in the suit". People signed up in droves to become a GOA member just so they were a party to the suit.

Realize my bitching isn't about money really, it's about results and also maybe GOA would update the Wikipedia page with accurate information that is legit and not bullshit on its face. BTW, it is ridiculous to think you only have 100,000 members. If we get on your endlesss litigation train we get few results and it's an endless self-benefitting hamster wheel for ALL LAWYERS AND THE COURTS no matter if you are on the plaintiff or defendant's side. You are all in bed to keep things stuck in court for years. And don't get me started on that weak ass lawyer that gave-up during the hearing with SCOTUS for the 80% case. That guy was a joke. A literal joke. Unpreparred and simply quit speaking when the justices were begging or asking him for more reasons why they should rule on his behalf. The DOJ virtually doubled the amount of time with respect to verbal arguments in that case and our side simply threw in the towel and quit speaking when they had the floor and attention of the justices. Uncalled for. Never put that lawyer in front of SCOTUS again or GOA will lose.

I am not longer a member of GOA. You should not be able to buy your innocence due to a lawyer filing a brief or motion with the court. The financial incentives with that injunction are obvious, yet you always beg for more with endless spam. I could bitch some more, but I'll refrain.

Budget Reconciliation Promises:
============================================
Right around the time that the BB Bill was signed, it was rumored that a second budget reconciliation bill might remove suppressors and SBR's this fall (which is now) . I haven't heard anything about this to date, and I do believe budget issues will be front and center again soon. But given the assassination, I wouldn't hold my breath on a hat trick to nuke chunks of the NFA through a budget reconciliation processes. I think they threw this idea/promise out there to get the final signatures on the BB Bill overnight with the few holdouts who were pro 2A. After they got those votes, everything appears to have died on the vine.

That's about the best summary I can give you from memory. You can google some of the things I brought up to see if they have changed and here are many links below.


GOA Lawsuit & Petition:
============================================
Petition & Suit against Bondi https://www.gunowners.org/wp-content/uploads/GOA-One-Big-Beautiful-Lawsuit.pdf

Here is what they're asking the court to do in the suit:

A. Declare that the NFA’s registration and transfer requirements pertaining to untaxed firearms exceed Congress’s enumerated powers.

B. Enjoin Defendants and their employees, agents, successors, or any other person acting in concert with them, from implementing, enforcing, or otherwise acting under the authority of the NFA with respect to untaxed firearms.

C. Award Plaintiffs their reasonable costs, including attorney fees.

D. Grant Plaintiffs any and all such other and further relief to which they are justly entitled at law and in equity


Link to Court & Documents:
============================================

United States District Court:

https://www.txnd.uscourts.gov/location/san-angelo

Registration for viewing court records (credit card required and has a fee to veiw records)

PACER – Case Search Only | PACER: Federal Court Records

pacer.uscourts.gov

E-filing documents main page for records and filings. This is for interested parties or "friends of the court" filings.

https://www.txnd.uscourts.gov/filing

Pacer Registration Main Page for all of the above with info:

Register for an Account | PACER: Federal Court Records

pacer.uscourts.gov

Login Panel once registered:

https://pacer.psc.uscourts.gov/pscof/login.xhtml

GOA Lawsuit Parties & Timeline as of Sept 15, 2025:
============================================

GOA Lawsuit Timeline:
============================================

GOA Wikipedia Chart below with figures from 2015
============================================


Gun Owners of America

Wikimedia | © OpenStreetMap
Founded	November 9, 1976; 48 years ago[3]
Tax ID no.	52-1256643[2]
Legal status	501(c)(4)[2]
Headquarters	Springfield, Virginia, US
Coordinates	38.8075°N 77.2196°W
Membership	2,000,000+ [1]
Founder	H.L. Richardson
Senior Vice President	Erich Pratt
Revenue	$2,152,940[2] (2015)
Expenses	$2,319,763[2] (2015)
Employees	14[2] (2015)
Website	www.gunowners.org

Wikipedia Page:
============================================

Gun Owners of America - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Donation Page:
$25
============================================

Membership Signup – Gun Owners of America

donate.gunowners.org

 

[Bobster]

I applaud the research you have done.

Keep in mind that just about ANYBODY can create a Wikipedia account and edit content. There are leftist trolls that do this on a regular basis to conservative wikis. And I'm sure there are conservatives who do it to leftist wikis. The point I'm making is that while 98% of wikis are probably "ok" and mostly factual, there COULD be erroneous information that should be verified as legit...

I didn't actually save my edits but I could have if I had signed in. How long this erroneous info would be displayed would depend on how long it took someone at GOA to restore the previous info...

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Several can sellers are waiving the 200 tax fee now. They are paying it.

 

[no4mk1t]

Several can sellers are waiving the 200 tax fee now. They are paying it.

Everyone is waiting on Jan. 1st.
Vendors don't want zero sales in the whole Q4, so they are taking the hit. Most silencers have a healthy profit margin, so better some profit over no profit.

 

[Curmudgeon]

I'll wait until they are non-NFA completely and then consider buying one. Until then, earplugs are dirt cheap.

 

[Racer88]

Everyone is waiting on Jan. 1st.
Vendors don't want zero sales in the whole Q4, so they are taking the hit. Most silencers have a healthy profit margin, so better some profit over no profit.

Smart move on the part of the merchants.

I still won't buy one, because of the registration requirement.

 

[no4mk1t]

I'll wait until they are non-NFA completely and then consider buying one. Until then, earplugs are dirt cheap.

That will probably take a few years to make its way through the courts. Look at how long the bump stock thing took. Plus, the individual states could impose their own ban.
All NFA was illegal in SC until FN wanted to build a plant here. Then, magically, the law was changed to get them to commit to build.

 

[Racer88]

All NFA was illegal in SC until FN wanted to build a plant here. Then, magically, the law was changed to get them to commit to build.

That's interesting and odd to me. Implied is that FN would have a vested interest in NFA being legal there. I would expect FN's NFA sales are a very very VERY small part of their overall sales.

In any case, as long as it's NFA, it's a no go for me. I just have no interest in registering anything.

 

[Curmudgeon]

That will probably take a few years to make its way through the courts. Look at how long the bump stock thing took. Plus, the individual states could impose their own ban.
All NFA was illegal in SC until FN wanted to build a plant here. Then, magically, the law was changed to get them to commit to build.

I've been wearing earplugs for more than a few years.

I don't think I have much to worry about State bans in Texas. And if it starts looking like it will, then I'll just have to remember to shit, shovel, and shut up.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Silencers have a limited lifespan. Registering them is meaningless to both the government and the owner. If there's no tax, there's really no downside. Put 10k rounds thru a suppressor and it's pretty much done.

Nobody is going to knock on your door and ask to see your silencers.

If you have a conceal carry permit, the government already knows you own guns.

BTW: I heard a rumor the either day. FFLs do not have to send in their archived 4473's or e-forms to the BATFE anymore if they close their shop and don't renew their license. I was not notified of this but maybe I missed a memo. I have asked for clarification from them.

 

[no4mk1t]

That's interesting and odd to me. Implied is that FN would have a vested interest in NFA being legal there. I would expect FN's NFA sales are a very very VERY small part of their overall sales.

In any case, as long as it's NFA, it's a no go for me. I just have no interest in registering anything.

The reason they wanted to build the plant was they had been awarded a contract to build M16A2's for the Army and the contract stipulated that they had to build them in the USA. Had nothing to do with civilian NFA sales.
The law was written prohibiting manufacture. The law was changed to entice FN to choose SC as their new plant site. Civilian NFA was a bonus.

 

[no4mk1t]

Silencers have a limited lifespan. Registering them is meaningless to the government and the owner. If there's no tax, there's really no downside.

Nobody is going to knock on your door and ask to see your silencers.

If you have a conceal carry permit, the government already knows you own guns.

BTW: I heard a rumor th either day. FFLs do not have to send in their archived 4473's or e-forms to the BATFE anymore if they close their shop and don't renew their license. I was not notified of this but maybe I missed a memo. I have asked for clarification from them.

I have not heard that either.
I wonder if that is to circumvent the ATF's "former dealer" computerized database.

 

[Racer88]

Silencers have a limited lifespan. Registering them is meaningless to both the government and the owner. If there's no tax, there's really no downside. Put 10k rounds thru a suppressor and it's pretty much done.

Nobody is going to knock on your door and ask to see your silencers.

If you have a conceal carry permit, the government already knows you own guns.

BTW: I heard a rumor the either day. FFLs do not have to send in their archived 4473's or e-forms to the BATFE anymore if they close their shop and don't renew their license. I was not notified of this but maybe I missed a memo. I have asked for clarification from them.

I'm not worried about knocks on the door the absence of any other practical downside.

On principle ALONE, I will NOT buy anything that requires registration. Period. That's it. No other reason. Just THAT. I won't do it. Ever. I wish the NFA didn't exist. I would LIKE to have a suppressor. I might like a SBR or possibly even a select fire rifle. Maybe. But as long as they are restricted to the NFA registration scheme, it is an absolute 100% NO-GO for me.

I'm not suggesting anyone else should or shouldn't go through the process. I'm just saying I won't. Just me. That's my line in the sand whether it makes sense to anyone else or not.

 

[Bongo Lewi]

Self denial.

I once said I would never get married until I found a deaf, dumb, and blind nymphomaniac whose father owned a chain of liquor stores.

Or Michelle Pfeiffer.

It's like playing an inside straight, hoping you are dealt the card you need. It usually never happens.

 

[Racer88]

I once said I would never get married until I found a deaf, dumb, and blind nymphomaniac whose father owned a chain of liquor stores.

But she sure played a mean pinball...