SHTF: Bug in? Or Bug out?

Its nice to dream, if the S every really does HTF you will be where you are period. You might have 72hrs, maybe. Just remember- ON ACCIDENT we found out about Janet Reno's purchase of A10s and C130s for a " CIVIL UNREST SCENARIO" - what do we NOT KNOW? I consider myself pretty damn tuff- not bad, not overly skilled, just very tough. I ain't that tough- saw a guy once- thought he was that tough maybe even bad enough. Then I didn't see him NOMO.
Things will be tribal and marauders will rule. So if you plan on going to some backwoods dirt water podunk area and you aint from around hee uh. You should start gettin from around here or Dont expect yer shit to be there lol. That goes for anywhere really. I am not a thief, Im the guy who gives BACK money to the bank teller or in a check out line. And Im telling you straight up I WILL take your shit if things go sideways LMAO.
Your only value will be what you can contribute and a doctorate from MIT aint gonna mean shit. But Bubba over here who has been watching and taking notes for 30yrs on crop yields. He will be worth 10,000 phds. Especially to 300 plus people defending 2500 + acres of prime farm land they've worked on/around most thier lifes.
People will recoil into tightly formed groups quickly- weeks if not days. Theres not going to be any lone survivor BS. If its me or them, its them. Unknown = enemy
Jericho the TV series is kinda close to what I believe will happen, just not all sugar coated.
Especially now we shop out a good portion of our food requirements to foreign governments. What ever stores will be available in larger metro areas will be quickly confiscated for the HAVES from the HAVE NOTS.
Store what you can- keep your FN mouth shut about it and pray it will never be needed. Educate yourself and practice things like Hydroponics and roof top gardens. Community farming in meteo areas with empty lots etc.
Dont mean to be a sour apple, but reality sucks and people are animals. And that Civil Defense League against unrest will be there to prevent large city's from leaching out into rural areas that the HAVES will need to supply their banquets.
 
I friend of mine stocks up on guns and ammo. One of their neighbors apparently talked about stocking up on food. My friends wife commented that this was a good thing, "we have guns and that means we have the food too". @Stephen G I'd like to think I'd behave differently. If chips are down, folks will do what they need to do to survive.
 
Everything discussed here is hypothetical. I don’t doubt tribes and mobs would form but they will have internal challenges as well as external threats. No thanks. I’m not a joiner. My favorite axiom: None of us is as dumb as all of us.

Best to be prepared for anything. Some governmental authority would eventually be restored. Presumably (and hopefully) bring order to chaos. You just need to survive until that occurs. My home being remote, I would stay in place until it no was longer was defensible. Beyond that, I’d be moving as stealthily as possible and keep moving. I’ve done extended hiking, camping and hunting 60-100 miles from civilization in difficult terrain. But never for more than 2 weeks. Could I do two months? Yes. But it requires a game plan. And provide for contingencies because nothing ever goes exactly as you planned. If your fitness/health isn’t good, this not an option. You’d have to stand your ground and pray an overwhelming force doesn’t target you and what you have in your castle.

It would be nice if neighbors banned together but I wouldn’t bet on it if things really do go sideways and the stakes are survival.

Worst case SHTF? Learn to sail if you live on a coast or the Great Lakes. Get a boat. Or even better, steal one. :)
 
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Bug out Bug in
For the hunters if you think opening day in the woods on public land is crowded?
That won't even be able to be used to describe how crowed the woods will be once the store shelves are empty.
The Toilet paper shortage won't be able to use as an example of what empty shelves will look like.
Woods will be crowed, modern food availability gone, 21 million people in Fl either stocked up at home (most aren't) or out scavenging.....hungry.
 
Yes all things hypothetical, but thats exercise. WHAT IF???
Its my opinion most people have no clue what anarchy truely is or how vicious humans are. Also, alot of wasted effort in things that will most likely lend to a early demise.
I do laugh- out loud- when I speak to people that 1/2$$$Million or more into a strong hold/go to site- ESPECIALLY when they live 2days drive away under good conditions. Government impossed control coupled with a mass exodus from major metropolitan areas. No one is going anywhere.
The exercise is what if the world takes a great big crap on life and everything goes to hell to the point I need to Bugout/in. What can you do to prepare- mentally, physically, emotionally and what do I/you need to ensure you and yours survive?

A community will survive provided they have resources to feed and shelter, IF they can protect those resources.
Lone survivor theories arent going to work. Travel to a point where uou are not known or familiar with isnt going work.
Building bonds within your chosen group/location will, I believe anyway.
commodities will be food ,a way to produce it and defend it.
When things go south a saint will murder you over a can of soup. Happens everday all over the world.
 
The problem with most scenarios are they fail to take under consideration the OTHER 330MILLION people needing to survive at the same time.
 
I’m pretty much on the same page as @Stephen G. People do not thrive alone, will group up, and will automatically respond in survival mode aka fight or flight. He is right on point, humans are animals and will respond as such.

The fight or flight response is imbedded in our nervous system. It will turn on automatically during a (perceived) life threatening situation. A person may respond with-
  • The parasympathetic nervous system include: sexual arousal, salivation, crying, urination, digest foods quicker, and defecation.
  • The sympathetic nervous system include: racing heart , dilated pupils, sweating, dilated muscles, overly vigilant, digestive system slow/stopping, urination.
This is what happens to military, border patrol, LEOs, etc…during engagement, they fear for their lives.
As an example in the military, during the Vietnam war, we all saw the news of soldiers acting out of character abusing villagers. Similar situation in Cuba military prison to Iraq prisoners. People are not thinking logically while in this state, do or say things out of the civilized norms.

Once the threat is over this response can reoccur if put in a situation that triggers the memory of the event. Known as and treated as PTSD.

If SHTF and you think/feel your & family life is threatened….your brain will automatically respond and there’s nothing you can do about it.
 
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Unfortunately my house is plywood and 2x4’s and drywall. It’s not going to stop an assault and one Molotov cocktail will be the end of it.
I can stand in the middle of my home and my .308 will take care of anybody within a block radius really. Regrettably the reverse is also true.
So it will have to be bug-out.
 
A good team means that you not only have trustworthy reliable people, but they also need to be educable, mentally stable, and capable of reacting well under stress. I say good luck with that. All it takes to create dissent and disorganization in a group is one asshole. Group dynamics can make or break a group. One toxic member can sow the seeds of discord and discontent.

It could be that one loud-mouth braggart, never been anywhere, never done anything, never been in a leadership position, that thinks he is going to take charge and lead the group. Or undermines those in a leadership position, thinking he knows better. In short, the Rambo wannabe who thinks watching 3,500 hours of YouTube makes him an Operator. Personally, I have no desire to compete with that guy or be a member of a tribe. I'll do my own thing, letting him and those dumb enough to follow him pay the wages of their poor judgment.

Legendary mountain men, trappers, and early settlers faced a lot more challenges and didn't have any of the survival/outdoors technology we have available today. Some of my ancestors were the first settlers of what is now Dayton, OH before there was an Ohio. Pioneers like them who ventured into the frontier struggled to survive. They fought Indians, and had zero sanitation, no electricity, health care, Kroger, Starbucks, fuel, or powered vehicles. What they had going for them was an ethos of self-reliance. And they weren't lazy or soft.

I would be remiss not mentioning a lot of those pioneers, mountain men and trappers died. So did people traveling in packs and those who put down roots. When it's you against the elements and the ever-present threat of disease, injury or predators (both four and two legged), there are no guarantees of a tomorrow.

A community of willing collaborators who agree on a certain order can survive and thrive. So can someone on their own. it all depends on who you are, what you know, and the kind of life you seek. And some luck.
 
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I forgot to mention...

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It takes a lot of time to grow stuff. Crickets taste like hazel nuts.

Squirrels and opossums also make good stew. Mmm Mmm good.
 
I've stated my POV. That is, unconventional tactics will better assure survival. More like SOCOM than regular Army.

The men in the pic I posted are probably a good representation of many people's neighbors. Imagine any of those fine gentlemen carrying a 50lb ruck 12 miles - like every Army recruit had to do. Maybe some of them were once flat-bellied warriors. God bless them if they were. But now, they couldn't fight for ten minutes without having a heart attack.

A prepper fortress today is a repeat of the "Maginot Line": A defensive barrier or strategy that inspires a false sense of security. As Patton said, the Germans charged thru France like shit thru a goose. Fortifications are a waste of time and energy in modern warfare. Or defending what's yours against zombies or whatever.

And that's all I'm gonna say about that. If the SHTF, you can find me.... nowhere. On purpose.

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Time and time again it has been proven there is little defense against gorilla tactics.
Blow up 1 outhouse and I promise you. No one will shit for a week, takes the fight right of them.
Its not the slap across the face that hurts. The anticipation of it and the crap your mind occupies itself with waiting. Thats just free farm land in a famine ROFLMAO
 
clm2112 said:
Yeah, rural is a relative state... it is rural at the moment, but what would it become in a crisis.

Let me elaborate using a scenario on a natural disaster. Let's say a largish rock comes down from space and does a face plant east of the Allegheny Mountains. Harrisburg PA would be a nice place to paint the bulls-eye on... ahem, it would solve a lot of political issues in the commonwealth of pennsyltucky. Ok, everything on the east coast gets screwed up quickly. A lot of local blast damage, light damage to Philadelphia and Baltimore, and little damage west of the mountains. The electrical grid of the east coast is going to be down for months. The transmission system is all above ground and it will get flattened all at once.

The east coast cities are going to become difficult to inhabit. They all rely on power to deliver the basic need of water. So, when the water runs out, and it will run out, where are the people going to go... West, over the mountains, is probably the path chosen.

Now, rural suddenly becomes not so rural. The influx of horde of people, many of whom are practitioners of the socialist ideology, becomes the problem. I don't worry about my neighbors...they are mostly sane and reasonable, but what would this area look like if the population gets multiplied overnight.
Click to expand...
As to the effects of a "largish rock", I wouldn't be overly optimistic about the "bug out v. bug in" question. For those with a survivalist sex fantasy I offer the following (and, since it comes from cnn.com, I expect both denial and flaming will follow...LOL):


Harry, attempting realism

PS-having been to USAF Survival School a bit more than a half-century ago but being nearly 80, I have few delusions about prepping. I'll be toast when the meds run out...and I have a few extra months worth.

FH
 
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